It's all about the logo..!!

Justinmiller171 Wrote:Thanks guys, I think I am going to stick with a CSAO operation.

I have a question about what type of locomotives would work a branch-line, would it only be Geeps?

When I do get around to getting a Conrail loco I want to get one with sound, the only two I could find were a GP20 which I know were scrapped in the 80's, and a U-25b, If all else fails I could move the date back to the 80's

If you're doing CSAO, just get an NS or CSX Geep. There are fewer and fewer Conrail blue units around.

Pretty much just geeps these days. there was ONE time I saw a pair of SWs on the Pemberton branch, but they were strange, a red coat of paint! I'm assuming they were lease units, but I have no idea what the story was. I've seen photos of 4 axle Dash-7s on the line to Pemberton to, but CSX got rid of most of these units a while ago. NS got rid of all their GP15-1s 4 years ago, and CSX only has retired many of their balance of the former Conrail GP15s as well.

Here is a picture of an NS GP40-2 and an CSX B36-7. The only weirder pair i've seen was NS patch of a conrail GP15-1 (#1427) with an NS High-hood GP38 (5220).



This bridge is alot of fun to drive under. It is directly west of the Hainesport Industrial park (about 4 or 5 cars back).

Thanks for the info GEC, but I love the sound of EMD 567s, and Alcos. I think I will stick with the 1980's era when these were still in use.

Justinmiller171 Wrote:Thanks for the info GEC, but I love the sound of EMD 567s, and Alcos. I think I will stick with the 1980's era when these were still in use.

You're going to want to go farther, to the 1976-79 if you want Alcos. Most Alcos never saw Conrail blue paint (in fact a blue Alco could be considered rare). Near all Alcos were retired or stored by 1979. Any units in service (almost none) or storage were gone before the end of 1982.

Alcos were also quickly concentrated in Ohio (mingo Junction) and points west, since they were temperamental and unreliable machines (either due to age, deferred maintenance, or design), and since Alco stopped building locomotives in 1969, no new parts were going to show up. By keeping them in one spot, it reduced costs. Alcos were odd balls and money pits, and were quickly eliminated in favor of "standardization", which is to say EMDs and newer GE units.

The only technical exception may be RS3Ms, which were remotored RS3s. Some of them managed to last, but many of the older RS3Ms were scrapped as well.

First generation EMDs were similarly eliminated, with all F-units gone by 1979. E Units were similarly gone, only #4022 being retained (Conrail's Executive units 4020 and 4021 were bought from Amtrak in 1983, the original 4020 and 4021 being long retired). Anything older than a GP35 got the ax by the mid 80s, and many newer units were also let go.

I'm thinking of getting a Proto2000 conrail gp-20, I know these were scrapped in the mid-80s, so I am thinking of modeling 1980.

How much PC stuff was left in 1980? I assume that they wanted to repaint everything fairly quickly but I am guessing there would still be some freight cars still left in their PC paint.

Justinmiller171 Wrote:I'm thinking of getting a Proto2000 conrail gp-20, I know these were scrapped in the mid-80s, so I am thinking of modeling 1980.

Like this one? http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Proto-200...-41554.htm

Justinmiller171 Wrote:How much PC stuff was left in 1980? I assume that they wanted to repaint everything fairly quickly but I am guessing there would still be some freight cars still left in their PC paint.

I'd say quite a few cars still lettered Penn Central and carrying PC/PCA/PCB reporting marks could be seen in 1980 (4 years after the creation of Conrail). For whatever it's worth, although rare, I still see cars lettered Penn Central now and then (mostly beat up gons), but they now carry NS reporting marks, who now owns the PC reporting marks.

Justinmiller171 Wrote:How much PC stuff was left in 1980? I assume that they wanted to repaint everything fairly quickly but I am guessing there would still be some freight cars still left in their PC paint.

When I wonder things like this, I usually head over to rrpicturearchives.net and wander through the rolling stock photos. You will occasionally find older pictures from the time frame you're looking for.

Here's a PC boxcar photographed in 1985, for example.

FCIN Wrote:

Justinmiller171 Wrote:I'm thinking of getting a Proto2000 conrail gp-20, I know these were scrapped in the mid-80s, so I am thinking of modeling 1980.

Like this one? http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Proto-200...-41554.htm

That's the one, Though the description says it is based on how it looked from 1981-1985, does this mean that during 1980 it was still in its CR patched NYC/PC paint? That would be neat because the gp20 also comes in NYC paint, and it would be neat to patch it for CR.

Justinmiller171 Wrote:I'm thinking of getting a Proto2000 conrail gp-20, I know these were scrapped in the mid-80s, so I am thinking of modeling 1980.

How much PC stuff was left in 1980? I assume that they wanted to repaint everything fairly quickly but I am guessing there would still be some freight cars still left in their PC paint.

There were plenty. Just to give you an Idea, Conrail started in 1976 with 4,891 Locomotives, the largest fleet of any in the country. 79% of them were from Penn Central (PRR, NYC, and NH units, plus some bought new). This is 3,866 locomotives. By comparison, the next largest railroad after Conrail was Burlington Northern, with only 2,176. Thats a lot of Penn Central, and we haven't even touched the 1,025 locomotives from other railroads.

Repainting did not happen quickly, there were WAY to many other costs and troubles to contend with. Many locomotives were outdated and close to retirement to begin with. Other locomotives were leased by Conrail's predecessors. If Conrail felt that it would let the lease end soon, it did not waste the paint on those locomotives. On interesting example was former PC GP40 #3151. On this locomotive, instead of CR patches on the flanks, the simply painted out PENN CENTRAL. the CR patch on the ends was a weird stencil. This unit was going to reach the end of its 15 year lease in 1983 and Conrail didn't need any more GP40s (Conrail had a large fleet of these, plus a nearly equivalent number of brand new GP40-2s). Some locomotives ran with their conrail patches into the mid 80s, but this was increasingly rare after ~1983

I too have seen Penn Central marked freight cars in regular service. They're still around! I think the only need was for there to be some sort of reporting mark for Conrail on it somewhere.

if you haven't already been to <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://crcyc.railfan.net/home.html">http://crcyc.railfan.net/home.html</a><!-- m -->, then you need to.

Justinmiller171 Wrote:That's the one, Though the description says it is based on how it looked from 1981-1985, does this mean that during 1980 it was still in its CR patched NYC/PC paint? That would be neat because the gp20 also comes in NYC paint, and it would be neat to patch it for CR.

Some of my books show GP20s in blue earlier than that, but a PC Black one is plausible. probably not so much NYC patches.

I have spotted U25B #2553 with partial New York Central paint (NYC handrails, and parital Cigar band on sill, Penn Central logo and lettering on the flanks, CR patches on the ends). U30B 2872 has a similar paint job. A deteriorating NYC cigar band on the side sill, and just PC logos on the nose/rear. No lettering on the flanks. I've also seen some remains of NYC paint on some E8As assigned to commuter service, but these are all pre-1980. Conrail's Oldest locomotives, the electric S2Es, often had NYC paint for a short time, but they worked around Grand Central Terminal. It would be very unusual for NYC paint to be around during Conrail.

Hey GEC, Do you have anymore info on the industries in Hainesport and what type of cars they take?

Updated Track-plan:

Justinmiller171 Wrote:Updated Track-plan:

Sigh, i just spent a while breaking it down, and then you post this! I'd almost just go on the gauge chat and answer questions in real time.

Its OK though, Except for Shelter systems (which as i understand it, did not last long and didn't get much traffic) and Insulation Industries (that's not on the ZTS chart), I can give you an accurate picture of the other industry's traffic.

Not that i'm a super big fan of Exact Rail, but they sell most of the model's you'll need.

Gallo Whine- Alcohol distributor

Gallo Whine handles large PC&F 60 foot "beer" boxcars. these are special insulated types built for this service. These cars are ALWAYS BNSF in origin, and may be still in ATSF (the dulled modern type paint) or BN paint schemes. I've never ever seen any other type of boxcar or railroad on this siding, and i looked through a lot of photos, and have been watching this train for years.

Eel River Models and ExactRail both make models of these boxcars. The Eel River models were kits that were just a little more complex than a Blue box kit. However, Eel River Models is long gone, and for the price difference, the Exact Rail is probably worth it (once you pay shipping on an Eel River kit, you're getting close to the cost of an Exact Rail boxcar that could be had right at the hobby shop RTR and super detailed). The one downside to the Exact Rail is that they too only offer things in short runs (I'm mad that i missed an opportunity for a BN beer car). Might want to grab these cars fast.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.exactrail.com/pcandf-beer-car-bnsf">http://www.exactrail.com/pcandf-beer-car-bnsf</a><!-- m -->

Roosevelt Paper- Printing company

This company also gets ALL sorts of boxcars. There is nearly always a Hi-cube boxcar of some kind there, if not a few. The most Frequent Road names of Hi-cube boxcar are McCloud River, NOKL, AOK, Rail Box, and Wisconsin Central.

There are many generic 50' Boxcars as well. In particular, Wisconsin Central boxcars are ALWAYS there, as are Pan Am and predecessors ( Maine East Central, Springfield Terminal, Guilford, Central Vermont, Boston & Maine). CSX and NS boxcars also show up. many NS boxcars are still in Southern Railway paint, complete with SOU reporting marks.

Fairly common are waffle Sides boxcars from CSX, NS (and again, Southern Railway decorated waffle sides not uncommon). They aren't always in the consist, but they are there more often then not.

You can't go wrong with any of these cars, i've seen them all exactly as the models appear on the line-

waffles

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.exactrail.com/ps-50-waffle-box-car-ns-1173">http://www.exactrail.com/ps-50-waffle-box-car-ns-1173</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.exactrail.com/ps-50-waffle-box-car-southern-sou-2-ho-scale-model-trains">http://www.exactrail.com/ps-50-waffle-b ... del-trains</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.exactrail.com/ps-50-waffle-box-car-csxt-1172">http://www.exactrail.com/ps-50-waffle-box-car-csxt-1172</a><!-- m -->

hi cubes

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-7130">http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-7130</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-7122">http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-7122</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-7131">http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-7131</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-7119">http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-7119</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-7120">http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-7120</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-7121">http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-7121</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-7117">http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-7117</a><!-- m -->

generic boxcars

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92544">http://athearn.com/Products/Default.asp ... D=ATH92544</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH87362">http://athearn.com/Products/Default.asp ... D=ATH87362</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/85-47511">http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/85-47511</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/112-5628">http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/112-5628</a><!-- m -->

Shelter Systems

Shelter systems built housing trusses. I don't know much about it, this place didn't last long. I'm told it recieved 50' boxcars occasionally. i do not know if house parts were shipped in or out, though I suspect it may have been involved with local development buildings.

Its tracks now are the location of the Hainesport Industrial Railroad's Trash area.

HIRR Trash Loading Facility

Construction debris and municipal waste are packed into trash gondola and containers and shipped out.

A gondola like this except with HIRR reporting marks would look exactly like what they run on the line these days.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.exactrail.com/gunderson-7466-wood-chip-gondola-gfsx">http://www.exactrail.com/gunderson-7466 ... ndola-gfsx</a><!-- m -->

Gondolas like this are not uncommon-

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.exactrail.com/thrall-3564-gondola-tilx">http://www.exactrail.com/thrall-3564-gondola-tilx</a><!-- m -->

Take your pick of trash flats and containers. Not as common as the gondolas, but around. There are also articulated container cars, but those containers are small compared to these.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.walthers.com/exec/search?category=Freight&scale=H&manu=&item=&keywords=trash&words=restrict&instock=Q&split=300&Submit=Search">http://www.walthers.com/exec/search?cat ... mit=Search</a><!-- m -->


That covers the Hainesport Industrial park and Roosevelt paper. Atlantic Wood isn't in the park, but it would get 60' bulk head flats, which would have to be kitbashed from Details West Log Bunks. Center beam flats also common.

Thanks GEC! That's exactly the info I needed, Seems I need to replace Shelter Systems with Atlantic Wood, I assume that Insulation Industries would get in covered hoppers of plastic pellets, I think they might also of received boxcars with the finished product.

Justinmiller171 Wrote:Thanks GEC! That's exactly the info I needed, Seems I need to replace Shelter Systems with Atlantic Wood, I assume that Insulation Industries would get in covered hoppers of plastic pellets, I think they might also of received boxcars with the finished product.

Insulation industries is another one of those businesses that didn't last long. Definitely no plastic pellets going into there, ever, and very small amounts of traffic. In fact, the tracks are gone by 1995, a year after the map you're referring to.

Its also part of the HIRR's trash facility now, which is why i didn't initially remember it.

the Trash is the dominant industry in Hainesport, but Doolan steel apparently really is still around. it recently got a Steel coil car. CSX hoods, on, Drum roll please, a Penn Central green flat with NYC reporting marks (the NYC reporting marks were applied to conrail cars destined for CSX).