Justinmiller171 Wrote:Would CSAO ever operate an isolated spur like the one in my plan?

Or would any other railroad keep an engine at an industrial spur, where the railroad's local would exchange cars of the track leading to the spur, then the engines stationed at the spur would do the switching?

CSAO is almost entirely industrial spurs. It doesn't really have anything resembling a mainline (though it may operate over former mainlines or ones owned by either NS or CSX). CSAO's main purpose is to keep railroads competitive by allowing both CSX and NS to do business in particular areas where it is deemed competition is necessary. This includes New Jersey (Primarily the Port Of New Jersey, but also including branches south), and the Detroit area.

In particular, Southern New Jersey is full of isolated spurs. Many have already been sold to shortlines and such, but there is still a CSAO presence across the state.

Didn't you decide to go back in time though? CSAO is a "new" entity.

Green_Elite_Cab Wrote:Didn't you decide to go back in time though? CSAO is a "new" entity.

Well... I haven't really decided on anything yet, i am still just looking for ideas, I probably won't settle on anything until I get a chance to operate the layout.

Green_Elite_Cab Wrote:CSAO is almost entirely industrial spurs. It doesn't really have anything resembling a mainline (though it may operate over former mainlines or ones owned by either NS or CSX). CSAO's main purpose is to keep railroads competitive by allowing both CSX and NS to do business in particular areas where it is deemed competition is necessary. This includes New Jersey (Primarily the Port Of New Jersey, but also including branches south), and the Detroit area.

In particular, Southern New Jersey is full of isolated spurs. Many have already been sold to shortlines and such, but there is still a CSAO presence across the state.

So would it be prototypical for CSAO to keep an engine on an isolated spur, and then exchange traffic with either CSX or NS on the track leading to the spur?

Justinmiller171 Wrote:

Green_Elite_Cab Wrote:CSAO is almost entirely industrial spurs. It doesn't really have anything resembling a mainline (though it may operate over former mainlines or ones owned by either NS or CSX). CSAO's main purpose is to keep railroads competitive by allowing both CSX and NS to do business in particular areas where it is deemed competition is necessary. This includes New Jersey (Primarily the Port Of New Jersey, but also including branches south), and the Detroit area.

In particular, Southern New Jersey is full of isolated spurs. Many have already been sold to shortlines and such, but there is still a CSAO presence across the state.

So would it be prototypical for CSAO to keep an engine on an isolated spur, and then exchange traffic with either CSX or NS on the track leading to the spur?

No. Basically, large Mainline trains from either CSX or NS deliver trains to regional CSAO yards, and from there CSAO drops off and picks up the cars as a "Middle man" between the shipper and NS or CSX. Once the CSAO local arrives back at the local yard, the trains are sorted as usual, but separated by carrier (either NS or CSX, depending on the choice of the shipper).

Neither NS or CSX would bother sending a train out of its way to an isolated spur to pick up the cars, since the branchlike service is the job of CSAO in those regions. However, what you COULD do is model a private railroad that interchanges with CSAO, since this would look EXACTLY the same as what you described. SMS Lines, Southern Railroad of NJ, and Cape May Seashore Lines come to mind. All three operate unusual and colorful locomotives in the kind of "industrial park" setting you're modeling. They WOULD have a switcher parked over on the spur, since the industrial spur IS their railroad. All of these operations are at the ends of CSAO branches, and some of them even branch off of NJ Transit's Atlantic City line (or depending on your time period, the Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines)


Speaking of CSAO, i just passed Pavonia Yard in Camden, NJ on the Light Rail, and they had at least 4 Hi-nosed GP38s out and about, as well as some of the new GEVOs. Pretty much all NS, but i know there was probably some CSX hidden away somewhere.

Well, would any railroad ever keep an engine on a busy industrial spur?

And if so how would it operate? I am thinking something like this:
(Please excuse the bad drawing :oops: )

Justin, that makes perfect sense in two scenarios
a. The industry is somewhat larger (not modeled on the layout) and switches on their property with an own little switcher (e.g. 45 tons)
b. The industry and some other industries (not modeled on the layout) are served by a class III switching railroad
The simple exchange without any further tracks is very prototypical today

I do not believe a class I railroad would spend an extra engine sitting and rusting on that track for years to handle 5 cars per week. The CFO will find a way to prevent that

faraway Wrote:Justin, that makes perfect sense in two scenarios
a. The industry is somewhat larger (not modeled on the layout) and switches on their property with an own little switcher (e.g. 45 tons)
b. The industry and some other industries (not modeled on the layout) are served by a class III switching railroad
The simple exchange without any further tracks is very prototypical today

I am thinking of modeling a small switching railroad, but my space comes out to about a quarter-mile in Ho-scale, significantly smaller than even the Kendallville Terminal. I know it should be compressed, but even then it's pretty hard to convince myself that this could be a real railroad.

faraway Wrote:I do not believe a class I railroad would spend an extra engine sitting and rusting on that track for years to handle 5 cars per week. The CFO will find a way to prevent that

There would be alot more than five carloads a day on the layout, about 5 ins and 5 outs per day would be the norm. Since the "interchange" track leads to the same railroad, the engine could be sent back to the yard every now and then for repairs.

But then again, If that is prototypical than I don't want to do it, I could just run it as an industrial spur and make the interchange track a visible staging track.

Justinmiller171 Wrote:Well, would any railroad ever keep an engine on a busy industrial spur?

And if so how would it operate? I am thinking something like this:
(Please excuse the bad drawing :oops: )

Yes. In fact, if an industry is busy enough, it will probably have its own locomotives, that do all the major switching and then the larger railroads just pick up the outbound cars set out for them. this saves money.

Large complexes like the Oil refineries in northern New Jersey, or the Kraft Food factory in Dover, Delaware, have their own switchers (the latter operates a 44 tonner, i think).

Small shortlines like SMS Lines, and Cape May Seashore Lines definitely do this, even though they are shortlines and not "industrial" railroads.

faraway Wrote:I do not believe a class I railroad would spend an extra engine sitting and rusting on that track for years to handle 5 cars per week. The CFO will find a way to prevent that

Of course, in your model world, you could replace the board of directors of your RR with that of train enthusiasts, and don't mind having an engine sitting there for the railfans :-) It's your railroad , and depending what degree of prototypical operations/realism you want, you can 'bend' the truth a little, and enjoy it 'YOUR WAY'. :-)
From there, you can always progress to more prototypical operations, as you learn about the subject matter, and therefore your view changes, your enjoyment changes etc.

Koos

torikoos Wrote:...Of course, in your model world...

Hi Koos, I am not so sure I did fully understand your posting. I assume you did use a great deal of irony and sarcasm and agree with me that a class I RR would not assign a dedicated engine to that track. But why did you quote my answer? I am not sure... :?:

Justin - you need to do a search for the "Union Railroad of Oregon" - I have some info in a way back magazine, but it'll take a while to find it. AFAIR it had one loco - a Plymouth that was dwarfed by the cars it pushed, and was a very short line that had a wye junction with the mainline - I think there were 3 sidings including the interchange. Track plan was very similar to nyours. Let me know if you want me to dig.

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A Class 1 railroad might station a switcher at an industrial track if the traffic warrants. A more likely scenario would be to have a shortline handle the switching.

Justin, don't over think your layout too much. I know, I'm guilty of that. Just stick with a simple track plan that serves an industry(ies) which have a lot of traffic and a mixture of cars for that traffic.

I have seen class 1 locos stationed on sidings before, I am not sure whether those were in storage, or if they were stationed there to operate the nearby spurs.

Either way I really like my track-plan and I am not going to change it. I am just looking for ideas on how to operate.

Justinmiller171 Wrote:Either way I really like my track-plan and I am not going to change it.

Smile,
Stein

Sorry Justin,
I also meant to add that I liked your track plan.

Once you figure out what industries are served, then you figure out what cars are being shuttled in and out. One rule of thumb to keep in mind is to use no more than half of your layout's capacity. If your layout can fit 20 cars in its sidings, then use no more than 10 cars per operating session.