justin....Electrofrogs will NOT require feeders beyond the frog AT DEAD END SPURS - You can use a metal rail joiner on both rails leading to the dead end spur. This will cut power to the spur track when the turnout is set against it...Good to have so you can park a loco there and not have it juiced up all of the time (assuming you'll be using DCC...).
Large radius turnouts take up a good stretch of real estate. I use them only on the main line where trains will be going through at speed. On a switching layout, mediums, or even small turnouts will work just fine...Unless you have some humongous engines/cars.

Steamtrains Wrote:justin....Large radius turnouts take up a good stretch of real estate. I use them only on the main line where trains will be going through at speed. On a switching layout, mediums, or even small turnouts will work just fine...Unless you have some humongous engines/cars.

What type of locomotive are you going to use for switching and what size freight cars? If you are using 4 axle diesels and frieght cars under 65 feet or so, mediums should work fine. A dash8-40B might be a bit big, but Gp40's-Gp60's should work fine and any Gp built earlier than a Gp40 will be even smaller.

Russ Bellinis Wrote:

Steamtrains Wrote:justin....Large radius turnouts take up a good stretch of real estate. I use them only on the main line where trains will be going through at speed. On a switching layout, mediums, or even small turnouts will work just fine...Unless you have some humongous engines/cars.

What type of locomotive are you going to use for switching and what size freight cars? If you are using 4 axle diesels and freight cars under 65 feet or so, mediums should work fine. A dash8-40B might be a bit big, but Gp40's-Gp60's should work fine and any Gp built earlier than a Gp40 will be even smaller.

Actually the SD7/9,SD24,SD35/SD38,SD40,SD40-2 and SD45 will work on Atlas #4 Custom Line switches as well.

Freight cars up to 72' will work on Atlas #4s Custom Line switch as well..

How is this possible?


Simply put they are made to negotiate a #4 C-L switch since that is probably the most popular size switch for small layouts.

As you can see the #4 C-L switch is rather smooth flowing.

Don't forget that Atlas #4s are REALLY #4.5s.

This is a big difference. A true #4 really is to small for six axles, but an Atlas #4 is equal to a 22" radius track at it's tightest. Make sure you get the exact measurements form the manufacturer, since they tend to fudge the numbers.

Justinmiller171 Wrote:Thanks Ed, Caboose hobbies has Peco code 100 insulfrog large radius turnouts for 21.05. I am pretty sure this is where I will order them from, I have heard good things around them and they have been in business for awhile now.

I really want insulfrog for the reason that Ed mentioned, I want as little wiring as possible.

Large radius turnouts may be overkill for your layout. If you can fit them into the space, that is fine, but operationally a medium radius Peco us just fine for just about anything.

I did buy a bunch of Atlas #4 for my layout some years ago. I did not care so much about the radius of the turnouts because my layout would be a ISL only. The option to get more tracks for operation on a given space was much more compelling.
That was very wrong! First tests with 50' cars and GP38 looked really ugly. Even 40' cars with GP7 was not very attractive. It would look acceptable with 34' cars and 0-6-0T/0-4-0T switchers in 1920 or the 45tons switcher some time later at a Boston brick backyard industry only. All #4 went back into the cabinet, a new reduced track plan was developed and a new bunch of #6 turnouts had to be bought.

I'm still going to go with Peco large radius, I have the space for them and I like to have as smooth flowing track as possible.

Justinmiller171 Wrote:I'm still going to go with Peco large radius, I have the space for them and I like to have as smooth flowing track as possible.

Bravo!
I did a quick shot comparing Atlas #4 and #6. I used a 50' boxcar and a GP60M to demonstrate the ugly angle between engine and car. Even #6 is not a dream, it is a compromise...

Reinhard,Looks like your #4s are sharper then the Atlas C-L #4.

I still recommend Atlas #4 C-Ls over any other small switch even though I've used the Atlas "snap" switch on small 1'x6' ISLs.Doing so requires 4 axle switchers and 40' cars

Brakie Wrote:Reinhard,Looks like your #4s are sharper then the Atlas C-L #4.

I still recommend Atlas #4 C-Ls over any other small switch even though I've used the Atlas "snap" switch on small 1'x6' ISLs.Doing so requires 4 axle switchers and 40' cars

The #4 turnouts on the photo are:
561 #4 Custom-Line® Turnout Left and 562 #4 Custom-Line® Turnout Right
I got the numbers from the web catalog of my LHS where I bought them and looked the numbers up at the Atlas web side to cut the text inserted above.

However, I fully agree that the Atlas #4 is a very good choice if there is no space for a #6. As you explained the Atlas #4 is in fact a #4.5

Here's why I was wondering.

This is a Athearn GP38-2 and a Athearn RTR 50' boxcar.




I apologize for the poor photos but,my camera is acting up again.

Larry, that is because I did use two turnouts connected together. The #6 is long enough to handle the entire 50' car. The #4 is to short and the car is already on the counter curve. That makes a big difference. I did use the example because ISL have a good chance to introduce the so much hated "S" curve via this combination of two turnouts. If you have the space to place a straight track of one cal length between all #4 turnouts you have possible also the space to use #6. But the optical impression of a parallel track with a distance of about 2' depends mainly on the angle of the turnout.

Reinhard,Now I know why that photo looks odd..

As far as the so called "dreaded "S" curve that shouldn't be a problem in a slow speed area.

A lesson learn on my second ISL is never ever use a #4 and #6 together because you end up with a problem-no not the "S" curve but, you use track space that you don't really need to use and it will come back to haunt you.

IMHO a ISL is probably one of the most unforgiving layouts around as a example even a 14" x 10' ISL takes lots of planing in HO or N simply because every inch counts.

As I have mention before 90% of my layouts been ISL and I think I could write a 3 page magazine article on the lessons learn over the years.

As a edit add-on.

Here is 2 #4 C-Ls(right/left) with 2 50' boxcars and as we can see there is no issues.

It's cool you guys are now on to the turnout situation, which is probably my greatest issue with a small ISL. Depending on the siding capacity, rolling stock length, and the lead-in curve, I often find that with my atlas 4.5's, there is just not enough room to couple units without help from the skyhook. Thus another vote for larger # turnouts if you have the space.

MrBill Wrote:It's cool you guys are now on to the turnout situation, which is probably my greatest issue with a small ISL. Depending on the siding capacity, rolling stock length, and the lead-in curve, I often find that with my atlas 4.5's, there is just not enough room to couple units without help from the skyhook. Thus another vote for larger # turnouts if you have the space.

Bill,As a brakeman lining couplers was not unusual since forklifts are some time use to move freight cars at industries.They simply attach a chain to the coupler and pull the car to spot another at the loading/unloading area.

As a old broken down brakeman I can't help but wonder why you are uncoupling/coupling on a diverging route of a switch?

With my current "micro" layout, and it's very short sidings, I wind up at times with extra cars in front of the loco (and over a switch) during an inglenook game. Since the prototype doesn't use kadee centering spring couplers, I guess the 0-5-0 nudge isn't so bad after all.