Hi Bob, that's a bit harsh don't you think? I know what you mean though, but I think it boils down to a few core issues, and Justin, correct me if I've got it wrong, but I think I've been there myself when I was younger (not that I'm old now, I'm just getting on a bit :-) ) .
Basically: A: You do not have a clear 'vision' of what you want, and this is not made any easier by the many things you like, and can't make up your mind because of that.
B: You want to get things done and 'finished' quicker than is realistic. As many people have said, building a layout takes time, a LOT of time.

So first things first: Have a look at the amount of spare time you can reasonably invest in your model railroad hobby (bearing in mind that college may soak up more than you'd like perhaps), and what you want to achieve. You seem to like a layout that is relatively complete and scenicked, not just tracks on a piece of wood (a.k.a the Plywood Pacific). Making a smaller layout (or even build a modular one, based on Freemo modules or something like that) is probably your best bet at the moment. You'll have something completed in less time that way. But by all means choose something, and then STICK with it for a while. I am currently building a relatively modern layout, but I'd also love steam engines, big articulated loco's etc, but I know I can't have both and don't have the space to run the big steamers anyway, so it's an option I'll have to pass on, and leave to others. Anyway, you know what I mean.
Secondly, try and resist the urge to whack the track down, wire it up and then find that you've got all sorts of problems. That sort of thing very quickly turns your enthusiasm into frustration. Go slow, read up on things you're not quite sure off, ask questions on how to do things on this forum maybe, it will all avoid problems, and realise that Rome wasn't build in one day either. I want a lot myself, and I dream about having a fully scenicked layout etc, but the reality is that due to my job, I can only spend 3 to 6 hours a month on my layout, so my progress is very slow, but you know what? I enjoy those few precious hours even more, I can be myself, forget about the daily issues for a bit, and dream away in my railroad 'emporum'. Whatever you do, try to make FUN your priority, and take it one tiny step at a time, and you'll be at it for a lifetime!

Koos

Koos, Bob is just frustrated by the ping-pong thoughts of a young 'un! I have expressed the same frustration at least once (O.K., several times, right, Justin?) Others have also expressed their diminishing patience.

The deal is, we have all tried to explain in calm, rational, been-through-the-ringer as a fresh grad or newbie in the workforce and we have learned. But we are trying to reason from that vantage point with a young man of 17 years, who is at that stage in life where you become aware that the are more than merely the "This or That" choice so often offered by parents to their children.

When I hit freshman year in college, the wide open freedom was overwhelming, my head was in 63 places all at once and I finished the year with a 1.25GPA!!!!!

Now, all of that said ...

Justin, do yourself a huge favor!

Sit back in the chair! Take a long deep breath. Let it out very slowly, in a very long, slow controlled exhale.

Now, read back over the things that Stein Jr., Bob "Foul Rift," Tori Koos, some of the others and I have tried to convey to you. Think about what you read. For more that five minutes!! Now, because you are going to go off to college, chose a plan that will be:

A) Small enough to take with you.
B) Small enough to build and have electrically operational within a couple months (Keeping in mind that schoolwork in college will easily take two to three times as long to do as the stuff in high school.) Bear in mind also that you will have to discipline yourself to do the schoolwork, because no one else will care whether you do it or not ... don't do it and you fail ... it's as easy as that!

The railroad will take a back seat to college work, so a small one that will permit you to see even the smallest bit of progress will be a wise choice!

Now sit back, take that deep breath ....

Thanks for clearing that up bil.As you stated,I said what I did out of general frustration.BTW-I have a 16 year old son and he frustrates me a lot because he doesn't want to listen.
Thinks he knows more that his parents.
As mentioned before-coming up with a workable track plan is not an overnight process. It takes time and that can also be frustrating.It took me a long while to come up with my track plan
and with a lot of help from Stein and others,it finally came together.
I also agree that Justin needs to take a step back and really think things out using whatever resources he needs.He also needs to slow down and not rush things.If he can do that then the rest will take care of itself.
Bob

Hi Bob and others, I know where you were coming from, I've followed and participated in this thread and his previous thread about plans to build a Miami themed layout inspired by Lance Mindheim etc., and well, we've all read it so no more about that.
I can only add at this point that in my teens, I was more or less the same, wanted too much too quick and my interests went from one to another, both on the model rail road hobby, as the girls at school :-) I was more succesful at getting somewhere with the model railroad hobby by the way
Ok, you get a bit older, a bit wiser generally, and things start to get in focus, and you learn to plan things better. I hope Justin will manage the same, taking on board some advise from us here on Big Blue. That said, I'm looking forward to the next layout he'll build, a bit slower, with a more structured approach .

Koos

P5se Camelback Wrote:Galen makes some good points! (He usually does.)

It seems that the new, youthful model railroaders have for some reason adopted this notion that those of us "more seasoned veterans" built a layout to a completed appearance last week and are now merely enjoying looking at it, or something to that effect. The young guns have some odd fixation on "finished!"

They know all about modelers like the young Mr. Lindheim, who modeling skills are considerable ... but he is not some magic god ... his beautiful Industrial Switching Layout that we've all now seen and stared deep into the photos, marveling at the detail, did not materialize in a mere couple of weeks ... or even a piddling several months!!!!!!!!!!! These things take time.

The modelers who inspired many of us more seasoned guys, the likes of John Armstrong, John Allen, Bruce Chubb, Alan McClelland, Tony Koester, et. al. spent DECADES building, detailing, realizing that their skill set had improved over time and the sections completed first appeared somewhat crude compared to the newer areas, and the old ones are torn out and redone ... they were (and in some cases still are) never "FINISHED!." There is a slow, stady ongoing evolution that takes place when building a model railroad ... it's just not a POOF! DONE! kind of proposition!

If it were, there would be no "seasoned veterans!" We woluld have built a "Finished Layout," admired it for a little while ... and then moved on to the next attention grabbing, interesting-looking, gotta-do-that activity that happened to be the popular "hobby" to be involved in.

Or maybe I'm justr getting to be some old curmudgeon who wishes the young guns would slow down long enough to realize that ours is the "Hobby of a Lifetime!" And by that, I don't necessarily mean that it is the only hobby to come along that is worth becoming involved in, although I bet I could build and argue a case for that premise, but it is a hobby that the hobbiest can take with them through the journey of life, fron the pre-teen years to octagenarianism!

What's the rush to be finished?

:?: :?: :? :?: :?: :!:

I agree...and I'm not one of the older guys around here. I mean look at George Sellios' Franklin and South Manchester, he started that layout in 1985. It's a layout that he is continually working on and just recently he's gone back and redone parts of the layout so he can actually have operations now. I don't think it would be any fun if you were able to build a layout in a real short amount of time.

Alright, Time to "cut the crap"

I took that deep breath that Bil mentioned and cleared my head.

I had alot of time to think about things, and I have decided to go with the track-plan that Ed drew up earlier.

Track-laying and wiring should be fairly simple, which will allow me to get to operations quicker, this way there will be no "Rush to get finished".

Sorry for all of the frustration I caused you guys, I promise it won't happen again :oops:.

Justinmiller171 Wrote:Alright, Time to "cut the crap"

I took that deep breath that Bil mentioned and cleared my head.

I had alot of time to think about things, and I have decided to go with the track-plan that Ed drew up earlier.

Track-laying and wiring should be fairly simple, which will allow me to get to operations quicker, this way there will be no "Rush to get finished".

Sorry for all of the frustration I caused you guys, I promise it won't happen again :oops:.

Hi Justin, good luck and take it SLOW.. Remember to put in the electrical insulations on the turnouts where needed (I would be using insulating rail joiners), and test each step, meaning apply power to the track and run a loco over the newly completed section. This way you can keep track of your additions, and will find out if there are any problems. In this case lay some track, add a turnout and test. Then add a bit more and the next turnout , and test again. Do the tracks join smoothly ? No major kinks, height differences or miss-alignments? If there are problems , then you'll easily remember what you've done in the last step, and take one back. Once all track is down, wired and tested, then solder rail joiners if you must (I usually don't do that), but not before it's all tested and running to your satisfaction. Push and pull a light weight freight car with your loco on each completed section, this will easily indicate problem spots that you may not have noticed visually, if the car de-rails, investigate why it happens. (is the coupler touching something etc). It will save you time and frustration. Then you can start your scenery.
Are you still basing it on the SP? This sort of switching plan is great for an SW1500 or other smaller 4 axle loco like a GP15 or GP35 etc. Keep us posted, and go slow! ;-)

Hey Justin,

I've been watching this thread now and can relate totally to your possition and set backs. I have a few threads here on a layout I wanted to build but due to a beautiful baby girl and a possibility of a move I have had to stop all dreams at thias point. It has at least made me very aware that a project like this needs to be STARTEd and driven but at the same time realistic in its size and the amout of time you will take before recieving the reward for completion. I really would like to give you encouragement to go for it!

ED... Can I steal your design too?? Or can you help me with a similar one based on my designs in my thread? I like that it is so simple and has a good few operating options... Jack Hills O scale NCIR has been an inspiration for me in reasuring me that a simple layout can be very effective if thought out. My last design seems too complicated:



Now I feel I need to move it a bit and have the main area for switching along where the staging is now in the south. And move the Staging to the east.

Maybe Ed can give me some much needed "kick in the butt"...lol

Time I started building regardless of moving...

SSWUPinSA Wrote:ED... Can I steal your design too?? Or can you help me with a similar one based on my designs in my thread?

Well sure! Feel free to use it, modify it, what ever you wish. Very pleased that some one else is interested in simple, yet prototypical track plans. Any time you want any help or any of my ideas, send me a message. Always happy to help.

SSWUPinSA Wrote:Maybe Ed can give me some much needed "kick in the butt"...lol

Need that myself! Other than temporarily laying out my track plan and actually being able to operate a train on it, I'm not getting anything else done. But this "testing" is really a big help in fine tuning the track plan and making any possible changed before I go permanent with it.

Ed, can you have a look at my thread...your help will be appreciated....<!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.the-gauge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=3383&p=71475#p71475">viewtopic.php?f=46&t=3383&p=71475#p71475</a><!-- l -->

Ed, Here is my version of your Track-plan of the Palmetto Spur:

Justinmiller171 Wrote:Ed, Here is my version of your Track-plan of the Palmetto Spur:

As it is, there is not enough room below the turnout along the right wall for switching cars between the mainline and the industry park, so the mainline along the right wall is purely cosmetic - and has no utility.

I would suggest moving that turnout along the right side up a bit - so you end up with say 3-4 feet on the main north of the turnout, and a tail end of the main about 3-4 feet long below the turnout - then you can use the main north of the turnout into the industry area for holding cars (inbound or outbound).

Smile,
Stein

I agree with Stern on the placement of the switch, other then that it looks like a great little plan that needs to be built this weekend...
Even if you just build it on 2" pink foam and attach it to wood later you would have something to get you started.

On another note...what program are you using for your track drawings???

steinjr Wrote:As it is, there is not enough room below the turnout along the right wall for switching cars between the mainline and the industry park, so the mainline along the right wall is purely cosmetic - and has no utility.

This was on purpose, I was going to use the main as part of the staging, I would store unused cars on the main disguised as a stopped train, I am not sure if that Idea will work or not, but if it doesn't I will take your suggestion and give a couple of feet behind the switch.

mountaingoatgreg Wrote:I agree with Stern on the placement of the switch, other then that it looks like a great little plan that needs to be built this weekend...
Even if you just build it on 2" pink foam and attach it to wood later you would have something to get you started.

I already have all of the track, and I will be getting the wood for the staging area on Thursday so I could quite possibly get started this weekend!

mountaingoatgreg Wrote:On another note...what program are you using for your track drawings???

For this plan I used AnyRail, my previous track-plans were done using XTrkcad.

Hi Justin,

Looks good...As far as I have looked at things and what I know from the older members here that turnout would do you more favours a little north... As for Anyrail I think it is great value for track design and so easy to use!!

Ok, how about this.... You and I are at about the same stage of this project. I too have delayed and delayed due to reasons but now it’s time to choose a plan and go for it... SO... I challenge you!!!!.... to see who can get some photo’s up of our shelf and track first and who can keep ahead!!!

How’s that sound?