Wanted to run this by Big Blue. On the peninsula, the obvious thing to do is a maximum radius curve following the layout edge as in drawing 1 below. The peninsula width is 65" so if I allow 5" between the track and the edge of the shelf, I can get a 27.5" radius curve. Now, if I shrink that radius to around 22", I could do something as in drawing 2.

The situation in drawing 1 isn't that appetizing to me.

I won't be running any cars longer than 50 feet and the locos are 4 axle diesels, the longest being a GP-38. The minimum radius on the layout right now is 24 inches on the 90 degree corners.

Any thoughts or suggestions from anyone?

[attachment=19731]

[attachment=19730]

Hi Gary

I like the second option but I'd stick to the minimum 24" radius found elsewhere on the layout simply for operation's sake.

You could also vary the shape of the benchwork somewhat to alter the appearance rather than relying solely on track positioning for appearance.

Andrew

I vote for #2.

Gary, do you read Model Railroad Hobbyist E-mag? The first issue had an illustrated article showing how various car lengths functioned on various turn radii. I opened the issue to look over that article again. A 22 inch radius will work. in the picture in MRH on page 50 of issue #1 they show a pair of 50 foot cars on a 23 inch radius, and the caption is as follows: "The cars roll quite smoothly through the the 3x radius (radius is 3 times the actual length of the car) as predicted, although visually the curve still looks somewhat sharp." Operationally, the 22 inch radius would not be a lot different than the 23 inch radius shown in the MRH article. If I understand this part of the layout correctly, there won't be any switching here, but rather the trains will be running through a modeled neighborhood between industrial areas. It will work fine with a 22 inch radius, but visually the look of the trains might suffer a bit with the tighter radius. I would suggest that if you "hide" the trains with either two story houses, or perhaps some highly detailed three or four story apartment buildings with walls separating the yards in the neighborhood from the tracks. Put in lots of detail to draw the eyes away from the trains into the neighborhood. Also add some large trees to block the view of the tracks. I think if you do these things, the 22 inch radius in the second drawing will work fine, and you won't even notice the appearance of the cars on what will look like a tight radius.

Count me as three for two. :? :?:

I believe that if the minimum elsewhere is 24", then 24" it should be or maybe 24", a length of tangent and then 26", if you can swing it -- anything to break up a constant radius. Maybe you could plant a large tree at the corner of a residential property (could it be the mayor's?) that causes the right of way to deviate from the constant 24" radius, but I would look for a reason to break up that constant radius all the same.

Whaddya think? :?:

Wow, thanks for the quick replies, Gentlemen!

Andrew, I am also considering changing the benchwork from a perfect half-circle to something different which would not follow the curve of the track. Do you have any suggestions?

TN, thank you for the vote.

Russ, thank you for your detailed commentary. I always appreciate the thoughtfulness and depth of your replies, and I do want you to know that you have helped me tremendously with my new layout. You always make me think, and even if i don't follow your thoughts exactly, rest assured that you did play a role in getting my brain going.
Where do I find the MRH e-mag? I'll google to see if I can find it. I've never considered relating car length to radius, but it sounds like an obvious connection now that you mention it.

biL, I agree that breaking up the 180 degree curve into 2 curves makes sense. Any suggestions or rough drawings?

It seems that the 65" width should give me plenty of options.

Gary, keep in mind "never say never" go as broad as possible. Even industries in Texas get an occasional long flat car load.
Charlie

The problem is not so much the radius, but the fact that the viewer is on the outside of the curve. That means that the sharper the curve, the bigger the gap between cars - the opposite of what occurs when the viewer is on the inside of the curve.
If you really want to disguise the curve, why not have it disappear into the "neighbourhood" well before the end of the peninsula, and put it through the wall? You could then use the maximum permissible radius without the worry of being too close to the edge. The balance of the neighbourhood would then simply be a scenic highlight.
My personal choice, though, would be to put the track almost on the edge around the end of the peninsula, with the widest curve possible, then detail the backyards abutting it.
My second choice would be a slightly tighter curve, away from the edge of the layout, incorporating both street running and some on private right-of-way between the backyards.

Wayne

Gary,
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://Model-railroad-hobbyist.com">http://Model-railroad-hobbyist.com</a><!-- m -->

Gary...I agree with Dr. W....A little mix of low-rent housing with tracks running around/through it would be cool and break up the monotony of the "flatlands"...
just my .02's....

Russ, I found the e-magazine and I must say it is highly professional. Wow! Excellent articles in that issue and I will be checking out the others too.

Everyone else... I'm definitely going to put a neighborhood there to break up the industries. I want to have 3 distinct industrial areas, with non-industrial stuff between them, such as the residential area, or vacant land with fields and trees.

WELL.

I sometimes think that I am making a mistake by going with Atlas turn-outs instead of the better but more expensive turn-outs. The other day, I started the trackwork, and put down a few of them, and after the glue dried, I noticed the obvious curve in one of them, in an obvious place where a viewer can obviously see the bend in the turn-out.

For those who don't know of the fabled curve, here is a pic. Notice the ends of the turn-out are on the level, but the middle is not even touching it. There is quite a curve there! I think it is because the rails which diverge are not actually pre-bent to shape at the factory. They are held curved by the force of the ties, and the rail has enough force to bend the straight rail into an opposite curve.

[attachment=19732]

This can all be fixed when the turn-out is put down, but you have to be aware of it and pin the track down so the straight rail is straight. Although I knew about the curve from previous experience, I forgot about it and didn't compensate. The trackwork was in a section where the "mainline" was angling out from the back of the shelf to the front. There was a 24" piece of straight, then a left hand turn-out where the main also turned left past the turn-out. When viewing down the main - first, the 24" was straight, but then the turn-out curved right (and was supposed to be straight) and then the main curved back left. It looked pretty bad :cry: - it was a dad-gummed "s" curve!

Anyway, I wetted down the glue, waited awhile, and then used a knife to seperate the turn-out from the glue. I rinsed it off and dried it with a hair drier, then scraped the glue off the cork. I'll let the cork dry and sand the rest of the glue off, then try again.

Not all the atlas turn-outs are as bad as the one in the photo, and it is about the worst one I have seen. I wonder if they know of the issue?

Sounds to me like you're building a case to lay your own. Like rolling your own, they can be any little thing your heart desires ... straight 8-), curved, wye, laped, whatever. And it's fun ... well it's fun to some of us sicko's. The rest hand-lay them because the are what you want, where you want it and if done carefully, they're pretty much bulletproof. Do a couple and you'll find they happen faster and faster the more of them you do!

Just sayin' ...

Bil, with over 20 turn-outs needed, I just don't think I would have the patience. Handlaying track or turn-outs has just never interested me. I admit that they look way better than Atlas, and would work way better too, but just don't have the gumption to do them. :oops:

Did those turnouts come out of the package that way? I had some shinoharas warp like that when the plastic ties got too hot - an arizona garage is enough heat.