Gary S Wrote:Down here in the south, it seems typical to either use that sprayed on cellulose stuff in the walls, or they use fiberglass batting that is completely enclosed in plastic, sort of like a pillow in a pillowcase. I'll do the latter I think. I haven't seen anyone actually stretch a big piece of plastic across the studs. How is it typically done up north? They actually stretch a big sheet of vapor barrier on the inside and staple it to the studs before the sheetrock goes on?
Gary S Wrote:Oops... Wayne... I misread your comments. You were talking about the ceiling. We usually use the fiberglass batting that has kraft (?) paper on one side which acts as the vapor barrier. It is installed with the paper down against the sheetrock. So again, up north, do they usually stretch plastic across the ceiling joists before the sheetrock?
At one time, the fibreglass with the tarred kraft paper was an acceptable vapour barrier here, but, as far as I know the building code now requires a continuous vapour barrier, including all interior surfaces of the exterior walls and ceilings of the living space. I used heavy-gauge plastic sheeting, but the sprayed-on foam is also acceptable as are the extruded foam sheets (who knew that they could use layout foam for building houses?).
The next house will be 2"x6" framing, as is the current one, but with rock wool instead of fibreglass, then a continuous vapour barrier of 2" extruded foam on the inside face of all exterior walls. I also wrapped the outside walls with Tyvek-brand house wrap, which prevents water incursion, but allows water vapour to escape from the insulated walls.
You're making great progress, Gary. What do you plan on using for the exterior of the walls?
Wayne
doctorwayne Wrote:At one time, the fibreglass with the tarred kraft paper was an acceptable vapour barrier here, but, as far as I know the building code now requires a continuous vapour barrier, including all interior surfaces of the exterior walls and ceilings of the living space. I used heavy-gauge plastic sheeting, but the sprayed-on foam is also acceptable
I've heard of the plastic vapor barrier, just never saw it used down here. Must be a "cold winter" versus "hardly even winter" kind of a thing.
doctorwayne Wrote:as are the extruded foam sheets (who knew that they could use layout foam for building houses?).
Those home builders can be quite ingenious!
doctorwayne Wrote:The next house will be 2"x6" framing, as is the current one, but with rock wool instead of fibreglass, then a continuous vapour barrier of 2" extruded foam on the inside face of all exterior walls.
Now that is some SERIOUS insulation! What would be your guess for an average temperature during winter?
We may get below freezing only two or three times in a winter, and very rarely for more than a day at a time. I'd say the average winter temp down here is in the low 50s. (That's F degrees...)
doctorwayne Wrote:I also wrapped the outside walls with Tyvek-brand house wrap, which prevents water incursion, but allows water vapour to escape from the insulated walls.
I'm just going with the tarpaper. Tyvek seems to be gaining popularity down here though. I've just never used it.
doctorwayne Wrote:You're making great progress, Gary. What do you plan on using for the exterior of the walls?
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It is going to be brick to match the house and my well/storage building which can be seen in this photo.
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And the brick ledge can be seen in this photo. You can't tell from the photo, but there is a 3.5 inch difference between the top of the slab and the brick ledge.
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Are you planning on doing your own bricklaying, too?
Gary S Wrote:doctorwayne Wrote:The next house will be 2"x6" framing, as is the current one, but with rock wool instead of fibreglass, then a continuous vapour barrier of 2" extruded foam on the inside face of all exterior walls.
Now that is some SERIOUS insulation! What would be your guess for an average temperature during winter?
We may get below freezing only two or three times in a winter, and very rarely for more than a day at a time. I'd say the average winter temp down here is in the low 50s. (That's F degrees...)
Actually, where I live now it doesn't really get that cold - perhaps -5F or -10F, but not too often and usually not for too long, either: it's sometimes called the banana belt of southern Ontario.
It actually costs as much to cool the house in summer as it does to heat it in winter - I'm not a fan of natural gas, so both heating and cooling are electric. Lots of large windows, too, and lots of large trees for shade.
The main problem with winter here is not that it's so cold (it's not, although I don't particularly like that) or that we get so much snow (we don't, although I don't mind it - mainly 'cause I don't hafta go out in it), but that it goes on for so darn long, usually being dark and dreary from the start of November to the end of April. Sometimes I'll go for weeks without seeing the sun and... No! Wait!! That's because I'm in the basement with my trains.
Wayne
Gary: not only do we use a continuous plastic sheet, but it is carefully wrapped and and glued around the electrical boxes as well. Any seams are also glued. *
The idea is to keep inside moisture from entering the insulation and condensing on the cold outside wall.
* At least, that's what the TV building shows tell us we do.
doctorwayne Wrote:Are you planning on doing your own bricklaying, too?
I'll be hiring someone to do that. I can get away with some sloppy work in the hidden recesses of the building, but not the brickwork! That's gotta be done right!
doctorwayne Wrote:Actually, where I live now it doesn't really get that cold - perhaps -5F or -10F,
Wait. -5F is way WAY below "doesn't really get that cold" !!
hock: It hasn't ever been that cold in Houston in all of recorded history!
doctorwayne Wrote:it's sometimes called the banana belt of southern Ontario. It actually costs as much to cool the house in summer as it does to heat it in winter - I'm not a fan of natural gas, so both heating and cooling are electric
Are you serious? I'm all electric also. My average monthly bill is around $250 for an 1800 sq ft house.
doctorwayne Wrote:The main problem with winter here is not that it's so cold (it's not, although I don't particularly like that) or that we get so much snow (we don't, although I don't mind it - mainly 'cause I don't hafta go out in it), but that it goes on for so darn long, usually being dark and dreary from the start of November to the end of April.
That's alot of dark and dreary! Down here, we have 7 months of summer, 2 months of fall, 1 month of winter, 2 months of spring.
doctorwayne Wrote:Sometimes I'll go for weeks without seeing the sun and... No! Wait!! That's because I'm in the basement with my trains.
I've heard others from up north who said they do their modeling in the winter because they can't do much outside anyway. Then when the weather finally turns good, the modeling is replaced by outdoor activities until the cold sets in again.
BR60103 Wrote:Gary: not only do we use a continuous plastic sheet, but it is carefully wrapped and and glued around the electrical boxes as well. Any seams are also glued. *
The idea is to keep inside moisture from entering the insulation and condensing on the cold outside wall.
* At least, that's what the TV building shows tell us we do.
So the moderate temps down here must not create the condensation the way it does up north. We do get some condensation on the windows though. With the colder climates, I guess that the condensation can happen in the walls too. Hence the major effort required to keep the moisture out of the walls. Sounds like a lot of extra work!
Progress report....
Got all the tarpaper on the roof, plus the drip edge. Except for one little piece, because somehow I miscalculated and didn't buy enough.
Vicki helped me all day long yesterday and all day long again today. She is a tough lady and can work with the best of them. I'm lucky to have her, and I suppose sometimes I take her for granted. I shouldn't do that! I'm really pleased with the progress we made over the past 2 days.
The brick ledge and electrical conduits for the panel. I have 100 feet of ditch to dig to get the power here.
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Here's Vicki nailing down some of the big metal disks used to hold the tarpaper down.
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Another shot from the other end. Also shows the muck and mud which is my backyard right now. We plan on getting some fill dirt brought in as soon as it dries up enough to get a truck back here.
My daughter came out and cleaned up all the trash and cut-offs and stuff around the building. Three trash bags and a wheelbarrow load.
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After we got the tarpaper finished, we put some more plywood on the walls:
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I've still got to close in the gables and a bit more plywood on the walls.
To get to this point, I have about 120 hours in this project. Vicki has about 60 hours, my daughter has 10, and one of my electrician buddies helped us get some of the plywood onto the roof and screwed down, about 4 hours worth.
Now, my 120 hours isn't including the trips to HD over the past 3 weeks to get all the material stockpiled.
Also... it is supposed to rain Tuesday and Wednesday, so I will be doing my real job for a couple days. Will get back to the building on Thursday. We'll finish the wall sheathing and tarpaper.
Thats looking great Gary!
Tetters, thank you!
DocWayne, if you do get down south, you better come visit!
Progress report for Thursday:
Wasn't raining, but was just generally cold and nasty and gloomy, almost depressing. Tromping about in the mud, everything damp, plus it was foggy until after noon.
Last night, I bought 36 bundles of shingles last night plus the starter row and ridge cap shingles. What a load! Supposedly each bundle is about 70 pounds. I put 10 of them on my small trailer and the rest in the truck. The truck really sat down low... was probably more weight than I should have attempted. But made it home with no problems.
This morning, we put some bundles up on the roof and the rest in the building. Carrying 70 pounds on one's shoulder and putting it up on the roof was not fun. Then we finished closing in the walls with plywood. We shut it down around 2pm due to low morale. :cry:
Left to do on the exterior:
Finish framing the gable ends and plywood them.
Tarpaper on the walls.
Small piece of drip edge (ran out of it before)
Install vent fan in roof.
Do the roofing (ugh).
Buy and install door.
Framework and finish trim for the soffits and eaves.
Determine whether to put in a few windows or not.
Buy brick and hire a brick layer.
Photo as it stands right now:
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Need some sun to get the spirits back up so we can get it back into high gear and make some progress.
Good progress for the past two days. The roof is on, except for the ridge. Will get that done tomorrow.
This morning. Not sure what I am doing....
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Nailing shingles.
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A bit of progress:
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Just about done.
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One of these days I may actually be working on the layout again. It'll be a good feeling to move the existing shelves into the building and to start on the new benchwork.
On that note, I may hire someone to do the sheetrock and finishing. Just depends on how anxious I get.
I know I'd hire someone to do the sheet rock. A good drywall crew can probably have that whole thing done in no time at all. Might be well worth the funds.
BTW - The roof looks great.
Thanks Tetters,
I don't look forward to hanging the sheetrock on the ceiling, and I am just not patient enough to be a good sheetrock finisher. All the more reason to hire it done.
