Gary! I never cease to be amazed! Your thoroughness is to be applauded.

As for bayou/canal/backdrop intersections ... you've got to have at least one location where pipes emerge from the ground, go up, over and back down into the ground! And that is PIPES (plural) because, if your area is anything like Southern Florida, where a plethora of pipes emerge from the ground, rise to two to four feet above the ground and cross any body of water you want to look at ... not to mention where they emerge (in all their colorful splendor) for above-ground access to their valving, you would be well-served to have them any place there is water to cross.

You have inspired me to rise up off my skinny behind and go outside into the heat [105 F heat index today] and gather photographic evidence of which I speak. I shall either edit this post or post another with Faux-Toes to illustrate the way "underground pipes" are handled when the water table is only four or five feet down.

Now ... You may have addressed this point earlier, but I've forgotten ... as an "in the know" electrician, what gauge wire are you using for power bus, for drops from rails, for electro-magnets, for turnout control (if electrical) ... O.K., how 'bout just a schedule of wire gauges used? I am electrically challenged hock: and will need some adult hand-holding when I get to the dreaded wiring stage of layout building! :?

Well, it's looking like a beautiful, bright sunny day outside (you can't see heat and humidity ... the pleasantness will evaporate as one passes through the front door) so i'll gather up my little digital camera and take a short drive and photograph some "pipe crossings."

Back in the days when I went to layout school, the teacher said that anyone building, and wiring, a layout like that would get an A++....

Gary, are the push buttons for the uncouplers those red buttons on the panel? I would think you would want them located on the fascia closer to the actual uncoupler spots on the track, or is the control panel not as low and far from the front of the layout as it appears in the photos?

Stein, thanks for the compliments!

biL, First, I very much appreciate your interest and enthusiasm. There are lots of those pipe crossings down here in Houston too. I'll be doing some for sure now that your enthusiasm has infected me. I'll try to get some pictures too - looking forward to seeing what you can find.

For the wiring, I went big. This is because of the excessive lengths. The corners of the room are about 50 feet from the control panel (this includes the "up and over" in the attic).

Electromagnet bus = #12 black, red, blue, brown
Taps from bus to each magnet location = #18 four conductor cable

Track bus = #8 green, white (I used short pieces of #12 to reduce the #8 to a size which would fit in the terminal blocks in the CP.)
Drops from track = #18 two conductor cable

The #8 may seem overkill, but some of the runs are 50 feet plus. On my old layout which used #12 bus, the extreme ends wouldn't pass the "quarter test". Increasing the wire size to #8 did the trick. I decided to do the new layout bus with #8 because of that. #10 most liekly would have worked just as well.

As for turnout wiring, I am using homemade manual controls as in the thread:

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The 3-way electrical switches are fed from the track bus with #18, then that feeds the frog with #22.

Steamtrains Wrote:Back in the days when I went to layout school, the teacher said that anyone building, and wiring, a layout like that would get an A++....

Oh yeah!

Russ Bellinis Wrote:Gary, are the push buttons for the uncouplers those red buttons on the panel? I would think you would want them located on the fascia closer to the actual uncoupler spots on the track, or is the control panel not as low and far from the front of the layout as it appears in the photos?

Russ, everything on the control panel front are just "master" on-off switches and indicator lights. The e-magnet pushbuttons will be installed at the actual e-magnet locations, in the fascia directly out from the magnet - the button can be used as an aid in locating the magnet. Still, I'll probably have to mark the magnet locations with some railroad junk, maybe an old pallet, or a couple of old ties, a crushed 55 gallon drum, etc. There are around 2 dozen e-mags around the layout.

A picture of the front of the cp with captions

[attachment=19753]

And an e-mag button and control relay. One of these combos will be mounted at each magnet.

[attachment=19752]

Gary ...
It's too bad you live so far away! "Hanging out" with you, this whole "electricity magic" is slowly beginning to make sense! hock: hock:
I look at the front panel on your Control Box and it's all very logical. I understand what you are doing. The wire gauge schedule also makes total sense, when considering length of wire run, etc.

My God ... that's scary! I may yet come to understand electricity before the end of my run!

Hey biL!

I wish you were closer too. Right now, I'm pretty much a lone wolf on all this. Once I get further along, at some point here, I will start attending NMRA functions in the area, and maybe invite some of those guys to come over.

As for the electrical, feel free to ask anything. Although layout wiring may seem complicated, it really isn't. I'm here to help if anyone has questions. Of course, my usual method is to gold plate everything - but that's okay too. Oh.... DCC really makes the layout wiring simple as compared to the old school block wiring.

Oh.... weekend note... I'm planning on spending the entire time working on the layout! Woohoo!

Gary S Wrote:... The e-magnet pushbuttons will be installed at the actual e-magnet locations, in the fascia directly out from the magnet - the button can be used as an aid in locating the magnet. Still, I'll probably have to mark the magnet locations with some railroad junk, maybe an old pallet, or a couple of old ties, a crushed 55 gallon drum, etc. There are around 2 dozen e-mags around the layout.

HI Gary,

I too may learn something eventually..! I do know that my uncle, a career electrician, would be proud of your install!

Not knowing much about this myself, could the push button illuminate a micro LED that is on the ground next to the magnet location? It would be almost invisible when off, but they can be very bright when lit to show the centre of the magent (for example).

Andrew

Andrew, that is a great idea. Didn't think of that.

The way I operated the magnets on the old layout was to stop the train with the couplers over the magnet before it is energized, then energize the magnet, then pull away from the car to be uncoupled. With that, the LED wouldn't help. But your idea definitely warrants some rethinking of the uncoupling procedure. Again, interesting idea!

P5se Camelback Wrote:You have inspired me to rise up off my skinny behind and go outside into the heat [105 F heat index today]

Just heard on the radio that it is supposed to be 105 degrees here this weekend too. I'm sure glad I moved the layout from the un-air conditioned garage to the air conditioned building.

Gary S Wrote:Andrew, that is a great idea. Didn't think of that.

The way I operated the magnets on the old layout was to stop the train with the couplers over the magnet before it is energized, then energize the magnet, then pull away from the car to be uncoupled. With that, the LED wouldn't help. But your idea definitely warrants some rethinking of the uncoupling procedure. Again, interesting idea!

Maybe there could be two push buttons, or a two-step button (like your camera shutter release)? Push down slightly to illuminate LED, push fully to power uncoupling magnet? Do such devices exist (outside of the camera world)?

Andrew

They do make buttons like that, but are high dollar stuff because of the lack of demand. Another option would be a two-stage time delay, but again we are talking about a fairly heavy expense. I think the easiest option would be to increase the time delay to, say, 10 seconds, and just have the emag on longer, giving time to position, change direction, and then pull away. The longer time period on the magnet wouldn't burn it up because it is operating well below the maximum current. This wouldn't require any extra parts or wiring... just turn the existing time dealy relay knob from 5 seconds to 10 seconds. The uncoupling action wouldn't be any different than what is required at a permanent magnet.

so, looks like it is time for some experimentation.... but I will probably wait until most of the track is complete. Probably be best to install the LEDs after the ballast was done. Just drill a small hole through the ballast/foam/plywood and stick the LED and wring through.

The LED ideas is a great one, but since I'm electronically challenged I'd probably stick with some easily spotted and recognizable detail part, strategically located trackside to mark the magnet location. As a visiting operator, it'd be nice if the 'tell' were the same each time, like a bright blue barrel or some such thing. That way I wouldn't have to figure out what the magnet marker was for each location.

A swipe of bright orange paint on the end of the tie or side of the rail (like a mark a track crew would have made to indicate the need to work there) or one of those marker sticks, you know, an old 1x2 with a strip of orange stretchy plastic tied to the top like for boundary marks would work too. Not sure how you'd model the marker stake, but it'd be a conversation piece for sure!

Galen