A couple loads of crushed stone might be a good idea at some time before you reach that point. Most (probably all) drywallers and bricklayers don't like to get too deeply involved in the liftin' and totin' of supplies. If you can have the bricks and drywall placed closer to the building when it's delivered, it'll save a lotta wear 'n' tear on yer lady toters.

Wayne

You're not kdding, Wayne...

Our plan is to have a bunch of fill dirt put in to raise the yard between the house and the new building. But to get the dirt back there, we need a few weeks of dry weather to let the yard dry enough to back the trucks in. Some rock would work, but it would have to be dumped in the front yard and then spread with a bobcat or tractor.

At some time, I am going to pour a sidewalk back to the building, in addition to doing some patio work at the back of our house.

It is sad to think about it, but the sheetrock and the brick is probably going to be hand-carried and wheel-barrowed back to the building. :x

Gary you are one lucky guy! That is going to be one heck of a nice train room! Wish I had some space to building something like that lol

Gary S Wrote:It is sad to think about it, but the sheetrock and the brick is probably going to be hand-carried and wheel-barrowed back to the building. :x

Gary, Are you going to use 8' or 12' sheetrock panels? Those 12' sheetrock panels are HEAVY! so make sure you get someone to help you carry them back. I used to work at Lowes, and I hates when someone would order half a bunk of the stuff, and we would have to hand-load it onto the top of their truck! And make sure you dont drop them in the mud If its real muddy, maybe get some plywood to make a temporary flat path to walk on, something that you wont sink when your walking with those heavy sheets lol

Yeah, none of it is too pleasant to handle, but by using 8-footers, and installing them vertically, you'll get more-invisible joints than you would by using 12' or 16' sheets installed horizontally, with butt joints between the ends. A little more taping, but well-worth it, in my opinion.

When I built my house, we hired someone to do it. The guy insisted on doing all the taping and mudding himself, but he had a couple of guys who did most of the boarding. One of them, the youngest at, I'd guess, around 20 and maybe 150lbs. soaking wet, was the "step 'n' fetchit" guy. The delivery guy put a lift of 12-footers up to the middle upstairs window (the only one high enough to allow the boards to pass through), and the kid slid two at a time off the forks (that's four sheets) and literally ran to the next room. He unloaded and carted all of the sheets for the upstairs in this manner, stopping only when the truck driver had to reload the lift. It gave me a sore back just watching him. I'm sure that he did the same for the ground floor, too.

Wayne

Josh and DocWayne,

For the walls, I'll be using the 8 footers installed vertically as Wayne suggests. I'll also use 8 footers for the ceiling. It will all be 1/2" except I'll cove the corners as Wayne suggested previously. My calculation is 73 sheets. Gee that sounds like alot!

As for carrying four 12 foot sheets like the kid, not me! It'll be one 8 foot sheet at a time. Although I had previously decided to sub out the sheetrock, I am now thinking to do it myself. We'll see. I've still got more to do on the outside before it is time to sheetrock. Door, windows, framing the soffits and eaves, closing up the gables, and putting tarpaper on the exterior walls.

I haven't made much progress since my last report, but did get the roofing completely finished and the ridge cap installed. I hope to take off a little early tomorrow and get some work done.

Gary,
I don't want to muddy up the waters any more than they already may be, but I would like to offer a suggestion on your rocking plans. Don't want to contradict the Good Doctor, but in my previous life, I was a tape and bedder for a contractor and taped many houses. In those days, we did it all by hand, no mud boxes, bazookas or anything like that. A pan of mud, pan rack w/tape on my hip, a 6" tape knife, 10" and 12" bedding knife was all we used. Made for nice, staight walls. If it were me, I would consider hanging the rock horizontally, not vertically. Sheetrock has depressed edges along the long side, designed to give a little indention to fill with tape and mud. If you hang them vertically, you are going to have long 8' seams to hide, not as easy as it sounds. You will also have a wavy wall, as it is very difficult to nail up the middle of the rock where there are no seams and effectively spot the nails with mud. BTW, you should spot those nails 3 times to cover them so they won't show later. I would suggest hanging the rock similar to brick, cut a piece in half and stagger the joints where you have both horizontal and vertical joints. Start with the top and work down. Your first piece should hang horizontally along the ceiling, then stagger from there. It will be a little more work, but the end result will be straighter and less "friendly" (wavy). You will be glad you did, especially if you are doing an around the walls shelf layout. Also, if you have any corners, don't tape them , use metal corners and nail them in and bed the corners out 12'' on each side. Much stronger and will withstand bumping and knocks better than tape when you start benchwork, etc. You should also buy a sanding pole and lightly sand down all the mud joints and nail spots. Every teenie weenie mistake will show after you paint. I also suggest you texture the end result with a crowsfoot pattern. You can buy the necessary texture brush at Home Depot, as well as the hand tools I mentioned above. It will add another seamless thin layer of mud to the walls and strengthen them more and help hide "holidays", (mistakes).

hmmm.... Richardson, Texas... that ain't that far from Houston... need a job?

I'm not sure I understand. If the sheetrock is hung verically, then I will have a joint every four feet, but those joints will be on the "tapered" edges of the sheetrock so that the seams can be hidden easily. Don't we just float the seam out to where the taper stops, leaving a nice smooth unseen seam?

But if we go horizontal, then we get less seams, but they are done on the non-tapered ends so they are much more difficult to hide?

The texture you mention.... I am going to use the sheetrock as the backdrop. Would the crowsfoot texture pattern show?

Yes and no. Yes - hanging the rock vertically will result in fewer seams. But they will all be long vertical joints that will make the middle part of each sheet bow out slightly, even if you nail down each stud. You only have 4' (less actually) to work with, so you will have a 2 vertical rows of nails trying to flatten and secure in between each long joint. The taper is barely wide enough for the tape. You can't just tape the joint and cover the tape out to the edge of the tapered part. You need to go 10'' - 12'' inches out on both sides to hide the joint completely. By rocking the room horizontally, you will stagger the now 4' joints vertically and have a long 8' joint going horizontally around the room 4' from the floor. Then you create a brick pattern. Look at your outside wall at the brick and that's what it will end up looking like, just much bigger "bricks". It does create more work, but because you are dealing with smaller sections at a time, it will more likely result in a straighter wall when you look at it, especially from an angle, and you won't have a wavy look to it. If you are going to paint your backdrop directly on the wall, then don't use the crowsfoot texture, make it smooth and paint directly over the primed wall with your backdrop colors. If you are planning that, then it is even more important that the wall is smooth and straight without the bulges, or waves, or however you want to describe it. The horizontal tapered joint will be 4' off the floor instead of every 4' from top to bottom and will be better hidden. I'm sorry it sounds so confusing, I'm not smart enough to draw it out on the computer. Just visualize using sheetrock as bricks and create that same staggered pattern.

When are you planning on rocking and taping the room? It's not so far fetched for me to come down and help. I am scheduled to leave out of Freeport on a dive trip to the Flower Gardens for 4 days in April, if the scuba Gods line up, I might be able to add a couple of days and help you out. Beer and food go a long way!!

scubadude Wrote:Gary,
I don't want to muddy up the waters any more than they already may be, but I would like to offer a suggestion on your rocking plans. Don't want to contradict the Good Doctor, but in my previous life, I was a tape and bedder for a contractor and taped many houses. In those days, we did it all by hand, no mud boxes, bazookas or anything like that. A pan of mud, pan rack w/tape on my hip, a 6" tape knife, 10" and 12" bedding knife was all we used. Made for nice, staight walls. If it were me, I would consider hanging the rock horizontally, not vertically. Sheetrock has depressed edges along the long side, designed to give a little indention to fill with tape and mud. If you hang them vertically, you are going to have long 8' seams to hide, not as easy as it sounds. You will also have a wavy wall, as it is very difficult to nail up the middle of the rock where there are no seams and effectively spot the nails with mud. BTW, you should spot those nails 3 times to cover them so they won't show later. I would suggest hanging the rock similar to brick, cut a piece in half and stagger the joints where you have both horizontal and vertical joints. Start with the top and work down. Your first piece should hang horizontally along the ceiling, then stagger from there. It will be a little more work, but the end result will be straighter and less "friendly" (wavy). You will be glad you did, especially if you are doing an around the walls shelf layout. Also, if you have any corners, don't tape them , use metal corners and nail them in and bed the corners out 12'' on each side. Much stronger and will withstand bumping and knocks better than tape when you start benchwork, etc. You should also buy a sanding pole and lightly sand down all the mud joints and nail spots. Every teenie weenie mistake will show after you paint. I also suggest you texture the end result with a crowsfoot pattern. You can buy the necessary texture brush at Home Depot, as well as the hand tools I mentioned above. It will add another seamless thin layer of mud to the walls and strengthen them more and help hide "holidays", (mistakes).

No one should worry about contradicting me, scubadude - my wife has done it for years. :dumb1 In fact, if your reply had been written by her, I would've immediately admitted the error of my ways, then banished myself to the basement.

For an experienced drywaller, applying the boards horizontally saves time (taping), but I have to honestly say that I have never seen an invisible butt joint. In a normal room, this is less of a concern, as most people don't drop by to inspect the quality of your walls. Some lighting, however, can really highlight this type of joint.

On a layout, where lighting is (or should be) much more intense, flaws in the wall are readily noticeable, especially in photos. Also, depending on layout height, one can choose whether or not to tape the entire joint - I elected to not do so, as anything below the layout, while still accessible, is not normally seen. Of course, when the layout comes out, all those areas will need to be done, along with re-boarding and taping all of the coved corners. (Maybe wifey will do it. )

The average guy doing drywalling isn't all that skilled with a drywall knife, so feathering out those butt joints to be invisible under layout lighting could be a tall order. As for the walls being wavy, the main cause of that should be attributable to warped or bowed studs. Many people, including a lot of "professionals" apply way too much mud and then also leave way too much of it on the wall. I'm sure that Gary will continue using screws, mounting the boards with them, too (and, in my opinion, the only way to go) and the screw heads, properly set, need, literally, only to be covered. I agree, three coats are usually necessary on account of shrinkage, but only the screw head needs to be covered, not any of the surrounding area, unless it's been otherwise damage. In new houses, I more often than not see large splotches of already sanded mud covering screw heads, supposedly all ready for painting. The same situation exists where too much mud is applied to tapered joints, extending out up to 10" or 12" on either side of the joint, be it horizontal or vertical. The taper on board edges is very distinct, especially when viewed under oblique lighting, and clearly does not require (nor accommodate) mudding beyond its edges. To do so will introduce waviness into the wall, just as will the feathered mud covering horizontal butt joints.
To aid in screw placement, it's easy to first, before boarding, mark all stud centres on the floor and ceiling, then, if you have a crooked "eye", like I do, drop a line (a nail on a string works fine - secure the top with tape or loop it over a partially driven nail - remembering to fill the nail holes, of course, when you're done ).

I agree that any outside corners should use metal corner bead, although I think that Gary is planning to cove most or all corners. As for inside corners, regular paper tape stands up well-enough, although is not required if the corners are to be coved.

As for textured finishes, they're often used in homes on the ceilings, where they help to hide waviness and other irregularities. You'll still need to tape and mud the joints, though (the worst part of drywalling, especially the sanding, in my opinion), and I'm not sure that here it would be of further benefit. After all, there will be no windows which would otherwise allow outdoor light to show-up any irregularities, and with the light fixtures mounted on the ceiling, with most of the light directed downward, I doubt that the ceiling would be noticeable at all. As for textures on the walls, you definitely don't want them, as they'll show in photos, and you won't need them anyway, as there should be no noticeable flaws that would need covering-up.

To get a really good finish when doing your final sanding and touch-up, use a hand-held "trouble light" to obliquely light the area as you work. Held close to or against the wall surface, even a spec of fly poop will stand out like a boulder. This technique is, of course, not practical for most large-scale applications, but for a layout that will be under intense scrutiny via the camera's lense, the extra care is well worth the effort.

The choice for all of this is, of course, up to Gary, so it's good that he have as many options as are available from which to choose.

EDIT: When attempting to post this, I got a caution that other replies had been made while I typed the foregoing, so I'll comment on them now.

There's absolutely no reason that vertically applied boards will bulge in their middle unless they're applied improperly. After the sheet has been set in place, it should be butted to the adjacent piece, then levered from the bottom to butt the top edge against the ceiling. The bottom edge should not sit directly on the floor, especially concrete.
To fasten it in place, start at the butted edge, preferably near the top, and do the entire edge, then the entire row along the next stud, and so-on, until you reach the opposite edge. The same rules should be followed if you board horizontally. Doing the edges first, as many professionals do (I saw a well-known TV handyman doing the same thing with flooring plywood just last week) introduces and traps bulges in the centre of the sheet, and these will continue to cause problems long after they have been installed, including "popped" nails or screws and cracks along the seams.

Sorry, but extending the mud beyond the taper creates not only more work and waste, but also poorer, more visible joints. The taper in the board is designed to save work and yield an easily-created invisible joint.

Wayne

Hmmm...okay, as I said, I don't want to contradict the Good Doctor. I just know how rocking crews rocked all of the many houses I used to finish out.

scubadude Wrote:Hmmm...okay, as I said, I don't want to contradict the Good Doctor. I just know how rocking crews rocked all of the many houses I used to finish out.

Absolutely no problem, scubadude. I'm obviously not a professional drywaller but I do know what worked for me. And you are correct: most homes nowadays, except those with extra-high ceilings, have the board applied horizontally. This, I've been told, is either from "past practice" or, more often, at the request of the tapers. Because they need to get the job done as quickly as possible (the faster you work, the more homes in that latest subdivision will be done by your crew, rather than by someone else's) saving a few feet of taping and mudding in every room can add up. There's no need to comment further on the quality of the work, though.

Wayne

As a commercial electrician, I spent most of my time on commercial jobs. Only did a few houses, and those were typically custom homes or additions for our commercial customers who were remodeling their homes. Now, I have never seen a commercial job that had horizontal rock. It was metal studs and vertical placement. The residential was typically horizontal. Don't really know why, but my assumption which I shall mention in a sec is based on the fact that the commercial jobs typically had very light texturing, if any at all. Smooth walls for the most part. The residential typically had heavy texturing.

so I am guessing that the horizontal rock is easier to install, but harder to finish smooth. But since they are doing heavy texture, a perfect seam doesn't really matter. On the commercial jobs, they need really smooth seams, hence the vertical rock.

As for the layout... it will be about 56 inches AFF. So if the sheetrock is horizontal, the long horizontal seam will be below the layout and wouldn't show. But I would have end joints every 8 feet, or 12 if I went with that. With vertical, I would have seams every 4 feet, but they would be on the tapered edges. I am with Wayne that filling up the tapers (albeit with a few coats instead of one heavy coat) would be okay. The 12 foot rock on horizontal is definitely something to consider.

I will be using screws and will use Wayne's method of avoiding humps when screwing them down. The studs I used were hand-picked for straightness, so that shouldn't be a problem either.

doctorwayne Wrote:No one should worry about contradicting me, scubadude - my wife has done it for years. :dumb1 In fact, if your reply had been written by her, I would've immediately admitted the error of my ways, then banished myself to the basement.

Too funny Wayne. You definitely had me laughing on that one!

scubadude Wrote:When are you planning on rocking and taping the room? It's not so far fetched for me to come down and help. I am scheduled to leave out of Freeport on a dive trip to the Flower Gardens for 4 days in April, if the scuba Gods line up, I might be able to add a couple of days and help you out. Beer and food go a long way!!

I don't have any exact plans for the sheetrocking time. I still need to do a bunch of other stuff on the outside, and really need the brick up before I do the sheetrock. On that note, it will probably be sooner than april though. I am pretty anxious to get the layout moved into the new space and commence work on the new shelves.

It would be awesome if you could stop by someday, not really to help, but just to hang out with me and run some trains! Of course, it may be quite a while before I am back in running order. Thanks for the offer! And for real, we'll get together sometime and I'll buy the pizza and beer.