I think Gary's branch is not unlike the Los Angeles Junction Rwy here in So Cal. The class ones do not bother classifying cars for the LAJ before dropping them at one of the yards and the LAJ does not try to classify cars that they drop at Hobart on the BNSF or Washington Street Yard that they drop for UP. Classification is not an issue for the LAJ because a really long LAJ train will have maybe 10 cars. The typical LAJtrain that I have seen in operation has about 5-6 cars behind the locomotive. Since Gary is not modeling the mainline of any railroad, it isn't there to foul. LAJ doesn't worry about fouling a main line because they don't have one. The LAJ runs parallel to the BNSF main, and crosses the UP main.

Russ, thanks for the concise explanation. That is exactly what I was envisioning.

Reinhard, there won't be much traffic on the branchline - so as you mention, no need for leads used to keep the "main" clear. Maybe if I had three operators with a train each, there would be some congestion, but that may not be a bad thing!

You mention the size of the yards. In retrospect, I may have made them too big. I probably could have made them much shorter. I was envisioning something like two of the yard tracks filled with maybe a dozen cars each, and the other two tracks open for drop-offs to the class 1.

Oh... concerning the middle yard... I am planning for it to be "storage" for ATG and GERN rollingstock... with possible classification for the Gulf branch...

Thoughts welcomed!

Gary S Wrote:You mention the size of the yards. In retrospect, I may have made them too big. I probably could have made them much shorter. I was envisioning something like two of the yard tracks filled with maybe a dozen cars each, and the other two tracks open for drop-offs to the class 1.

Gary,

In order for a yard to be workable, it shouldn't be more than about 1/2 full. So they may not be as "oversize" as you think. And having arrival and departure tracks available is not a bad thing either.

Andrew

Thanks for the reassurance, Andrew. It certainly doesn't hurt to have plenty of tracks. But since this isn't a "real" yard used for classification and all that, I still could have gone smaller I think, allowing more room for other stuff on that section of shelf. I'm certainly not going to go back and change it though!

If anyone is interested in the mechanics of the wiring under the layout, here goes:

The following is a section of the original layout. The drops from the track are existing #22 solid wire. To get them attached to the track bus, here is what is done:

First, cut the wires, one shorter than the other, and strip some insulation off the ends.

[attachment=19769]

Then attach #18 wires to the #22 wires. Wrap the #22 around the #18. I am using green wire for the back rail, and white wire for the front rail. Notice that the wire joints are staggered... this is for the next step. Also, doesn't hurt to check from the rail to the wire with a meter just to make sure this is correct!

[attachment=19768]

Solder the joints next. Instead of insulating the joints, what I am doing is sliding some jacket from some cat5 cable over the feeder wires. Because the joints are staggered, they will be isolated from each other inside the jacket.

[attachment=19767]

And here is the completed connection, with the jacket all the way up into the botom of the benchwork. If I really wanted to fix it right, I would use some caulking in the hole to smooth everything out, then paint it gray.

[attachment=19766]

continued....

This section of the layout has four track drops. I did each of them as the first, then routed them into the j-box.

[attachment=19776]

This section of the layout also has an electromagnet, so need to extend the e-mag bus out of the box also. I am using 4-conductor #18 for that, the red cable. Everything is color coded - red jacket is e-mag wiring, white jacket is track power.

[attachment=19775]

The e-mag bus wiring was hiding up in the j-box, so pulled that out -

[attachment=19774]

The e-mag bus is #12 - took a small piece of insulation off each wire, wrapped the feeder wires onto them, ready for solder:

[attachment=19773]

Soldered and insulated with tape. An old electrician's trick is to put the first wrap on backwards, sticky side out. That way, if it is ever necessary to remove the tape, just make a parallel cut into the tape and it will come right off, without leaving a gunky sticky mess on the wire.

[attachment=19772]

continued...

Put the e-mag wiring back up into the box, then went back to the track wiring. Stripped a section of the #8 green and white wires - doesn't hurt to check everything again with the ohm-meter. Make sure there is no continuity between the green rail/wire and the white rail/wire. Could save some grief later on if something is crossed up.

[attachment=19780]

Wrapped the track feeder to the bus. I used a screwdriver to seperate out several strands of the #8 to wrap the feeders too. Going around the entire #8 makes it difficult to solder because the #8 acts as a huge heat sink and it is hard to get the joint hot enough. For a fairly big joint such as these, I use a Weller 140 watt soldering gun to get enough heat.

[attachment=19779]

Sodlered the joints and taped them up. Again, put a layer of tape on backwards with sticky side out, then the finish layer.

[attachment=19778]

Stuff everything into the box and it is ready for a cover.

[attachment=19777]

Still have a bunch more to do, but getting there!

And at this point, go up to the top of the layout with the meter and check between the front and back rails. Should have no continuity between them.

Gary S. said ...
"... Soldered and insulated with tape. An old electrician's trick is to put the first wrap on backwards, sticky side out. That way, if it is ever necessary to remove the tape, just make a parallel cut into the tape and it will come right off, without leaving a gunky sticky mess on the wire."

Gotta love it, Gary ... those are the type of "tricks" that stay with you and make things easier from the first time you use it! Like ...

Old Architect's trick ... "Roll the pencil between your fingers when drawing a line against a straight edge to keep the 'weight' of the line consistant over its length. You'll keep a point on your drafting pencil a lot longer, too!"

That works every time it's tried! Consistant line weight helps the drawing "read" well. I've been doing that ever since this old architect in his early seventies was visiting the office where I was working for one of my college instructors over the summer between sophomore and junior years in art school. He walked up behind me at my board and watched me work for five or ten minutes, and then offered me that one simple tip. It made all the difference in the world in the professional appearance of the linework on my drawings and it has become second nature at this point.

Thanks for the tip, Gary ... I'll make good use of it!

Gary, I have a couple of questions about your trackplan - keep in mind that I didn't have one when I built my layout.

First, I'm curious as to why all of the sidings in Industrial Area 3 face the same way. Certainly it allows more individual sidings for each industry when all of the turnouts face the same way, but varying the directions might make operations a bit more involved. The run-around track makes switching from either direction simple, so why not take advantage of it?

Second, how about a couple of industries on the near side of the tracks? I know that you need be able to see for spotting or picking up cars, but an industry or two between the viewer/operator would seem more logical and would provide something to break up the view a bit. The added benefit would be that it helps to make both the train and its run seem longer when it disappears, even for a short distance and time. Whatever you model could be something fairly "see-through", like a tank car loading/unloading rack, or it could be a large, solid-looking building. Make it as a foredrop industry (truncated like a backdrop building), with a blank wall on the viewing side. Or, alternately, model it as a view-blocking structure, but leave the aisle side open, so operators can look through the trackside windows as the train works through the area. This technique could also be useful as an aid in spotting cars that would otherwise be blocked from view.

Finally, for your Galveston Branch, or whatever it becomes, why not use that long siding at the top of the Middle Yard, heading left towards the wall? It would probably work better if the yard itself were moved closer to the front edge of the layout, which would allow for some view-blocking structures, but that could still be accomplished with flats or low-relief structures.
Another option to "figuratively distance" it from the modelled trackage would be to add a sharply-skewed highway overpass crossing all of the tracks, as shown below. The overpass is in green, with a multi-storey non-rail-served structure in blue near the backdrop to disguise both the end of the overpass and the start of the branch. You'd still need to add some view blocks to visually separate the rest of the branch from the "on-layout" tracks.

[attachment=19781]

Wayne

doctorwayne Wrote:Gary, I have a couple of questions about your trackplan - keep in mind that I didn't have one when I built my layout.

Good to hear from you DocWayne!

I didn't really have a trackplan either. This is an "after-the-fact" drawing.... about 85% of the track is already done. Also remember that about 40% of the shelving came from the garage layout so I had to adapt it to the new room and work with what was already there.

doctorwayne Wrote:First, I'm curious as to why all of the sidings in Industrial Area 3 face the same way. Certainly it allows more individual sidings for each industry when all of the turnouts face the same way, but varying the directions might make operations a bit more involved. The run-around track makes switching from either direction simple, so why not take advantage of it?

I thought about that too. Since Industrial Area 2 has spurs going both directions, I figured I would make Area 3 all going the same way just to be different. That was really the only reason. I put the run-around there to allow the area to be switched from both directions.

doctorwayne Wrote:Second, how about a couple of industries on the near side of the tracks? I know that you need be able to see for spotting or picking up cars, but an industry or two between the viewer/operator would seem more logical and would provide something to break up the view a bit.

Another good point and one that I agree with. I have been considering this, but was not sure how to accomplish it properly. There are a couple places where I have some turn-outs going to the front edge that I forgot to draw in on the track plan. (I drew the trackplan totally from memory yesterday when I was at work :o - during lunchtime...) One of these turn-outs is to the left (on the drawing) of the SF yard before the bridge. The other is at Industrial Area 2 near where the layout widens. I figured to put a team track at one of them, and possibly a tank car unloading area similar to what Reinhard has done.

doctorwayne Wrote:The added benefit would be that it helps to make both the train and its run seem longer when it disappears, even for a short distance and time. Whatever you model could be something fairly "see-through", like a tank car loading/unloading rack, or it could be a large, solid-looking building. Make it as a foredrop industry (truncated like a backdrop building), with a blank wall on the viewing side. Or, alternately, model it as a view-blocking structure, but leave the aisle side open, so operators can look through the trackside windows as the train works through the area. This technique could also be useful as an aid in spotting cars that would otherwise be blocked from view.

I agree that the layout needs some stuff in the front. I can easily add some turn-outs wherever they need to be. I really like the idea of the train dissappearing from view, but what was holding me back was a certain amount of fear in how to do the foreground industries properly. I'm not sure if I like the idea of the "reverse backdrop" building. Do you have any on your layout? Perhaps a photo of how you did it? I'm certainly open to suggestions and your commentary is well taken. I just need some help in coming up with some ideas.

doctorwayne Wrote:Finally, for your Galveston Branch, or whatever it becomes, why not use that long siding at the top of the Middle Yard, heading left towards the wall? It would probably work better if the yard itself were moved closer to the front edge of the layout, which would allow for some view-blocking structures, but that could still be accomplished with flats or low-relief structures.

Middle yard is there only because it was already built. Originally in the garage, it was one of the "interchange yards" but there was no easy way to put it in the new building. So it just kind of fell into place where it is. Although I wasn't sure how it would be used, I knew it would accomplish something. I need to do some study of the LAJ to seehow they use their yards. Now, concerning that long spur, I see what you mean. It would make a good spot for the Gulf branch. Right now, that spur is serving my plastics molding plant which is almost 5 feet long and this is the only spur of that length. I'll have to see if I can find another spot for the plastics factory if I did use your approach to the Gulf branch. I'll be giving that some thought.

doctorwayne Wrote:Another option to "figuratively distance" it from the modelled trackage would be to add a sharply-skewed highway overpass crossing all of the tracks, as shown below. The overpass is in green, with a multi-storey non-rail-served structure in blue near the backdrop to disguise both the end of the overpass and the start of the branch. You'd still need to add some view blocks to visually separate the rest of the branch from the "on-layout" tracks.

Great thoughts and suggestions DocWayne. The more you guys talk with me, the more ideas I have to kick around. I don't know why, but I have been shying away from the "reverse backdrop" buildings and the overpasses which end abruptly at the edge of the layout. While the overpass to the edge of the layout is certainly a viable scenic device, I've never really been a fan of it. Still, I need to review some photos of such, and see if I can't change my attitude.

Thanks again for the thoughts!

P5se Camelback Wrote:Thanks for the tip, Gary ... I'll make good use of it!

You're welcome, Sir! Of course, we're hoping that we never have to go back and cut that tape off!

DocWayne, as a follow-up, I took some photos of the spurs which come out toward the front of the shelves. I don't have any set plans for these. The two in the first photo were remnants from the old layout. I was thinking of putting a team track/ramp there - similar to one which is still in existence near where I work.

[attachment=19783]

The second photo shows a couple of spurs which were designed to take advantage of the large space at the front of the shelves. No set plans for anything there either. I don't think it would be too farfetched to model a building in the large space in front of the tracks.

[attachment=19782]

Looking at the plan, all the space in front of Industrial Area 3 is going to be a road paralleling the tracks there, complete with ditches and vegetation and debris similar to a prototype location which I drive by on my commute.

So... if anyone has suggestions, I would love to hear them.

Gary S Wrote:....I really like the idea of the train disappearing from view, but what was holding me back was a certain amount of fear in how to do the foreground industries properly. I'm not sure if I like the idea of the "reverse backdrop" building. Do you have any on your layout? Perhaps a photo of how you did it? I'm certainly open to suggestions and your commentary is well taken. I just need some help in coming up with some ideas.

Oddly enough, I can think of only two areas on my own layout where I've used this device. :oops:

I'm not sure if this first one even counts, but the runway for this overhead crane had to be much longer than the available space to make it at all believeable. As I had no other area that would be suitable, I chose to model the most interesting part (the crane) and "suggest" that its runway extended several hundred yards to "who knows what" beyond the front edge of the layout. The oilhouse siding, just to this side of the runway, also extends to "elsewhere".

[attachment=19788]

The other one is the Evell Casket Company, shown below. It's a five-sided polygon, sliced off at both the backdrop and the aisle. While not rail-served on the layout proper, it is supposedly serviced from one of the sidings below the staging yard seen beyond the backdrop (there are three reefers sitting on one of those tracks).

[attachment=19787]

The main purpose of the structure was to fill an oddly-shaped piece of real estate and hide the opening in the backdrop where the track gains access to those two sidings (along with a seldom used track, on a 5% grade, which permits the layout to be used for continuous running). A third purpose was to use up parts left-over from a kitbashing project. Modelling only the "street" side allowed me to include this prototype structure which I recalled from my childhood, and had seen only from the street. (Even as a five-year old, I thought the name oddly appropriate.)

A good way to help visualise a cut-off structure for the near side of the tracks is to imagine it as if you were viewing it from the layout, either looking along the track, as below:

[attachment=19786]

or if you were looking towards the aisle:

[attachment=19785]

(I know, there's not much to be seen in that one, except the usually-unseen side of the water tower and parts of the town which is across the aisle.)

This view is of the normally-unseen side of the Evell building (on the right), looking out from the access track mentioned, to one aisle directly ahead, beyond the curtain-wall building.

[attachment=19784]

In other words, imagine the entire building or business, then model only the amount of it which is trackside and which will fit into the available space. I can be a rail-served business or not, too, as at least part of its purpose is scenic.

Wayne