Gary S Wrote:A quick comment on backdrops...

It is conventional wisdom that the backdrop isn't supposed to be detailed so it doesn't distract from the trains. But, on a shelf layout, we certainly don't have a problem with building a backdrop flat, maybe 1 or 2 inches deep, greatly detailed, and placed right against the backdrop. So wouldn't a nicely painted building be essentially the same as a backdrop flat? So perhaps the standard wisdom isn't quite correct?

I think this is one of those "six of one..." things. Than again, backdrops themselves are a limitation, almost by definition, because it means your layout is not infinite. But, they are almost a necessity for an around-the walls approach. But, if you want to maximize your floor space and have as broad of curves as possible, around-the walls is the way to go. But that means you need a backdrop. My point is that I have seen excellent layouts done all sorts of different ways. I've seen building flats work very well, such as Ralph's layout, and I've seen some backdrops that equally serve the purpose. I guess the conventional wisdom is scenery gets painted on the backdrop, and buildings are made as flats. But, don't let the conventional wisdom stop you, because you are doing a first-rate job painting your backdrop.

ocalicreek Wrote:I'd have to view the layout in person and spend some time operating it in order to get the full experience and draw a real conclusion

Come on down anytime!

ocalicreek Wrote:Another 'common wisdom' you seem to be ignoring (and I'm glad!) is the whole notion of a valance. Hiding lights behind a little vertical curtain only seems to draw my eye up into that well lit space. Maybe I'm too tall for the designs I've seen, but most of the time they just get in the way or create visual clutter in the periphery.

A valence never even came to mind as I was doing the lighting, so I didn't purposely ignore it, it just happened. But after operating on another layout that had a valence, I sort of liked the way it looked. I looked around my train room to see if it was possible to add a valence, but the light fixture arrangement and placement, and the fact that the center wall doesn't go all the way to the ceiling, doesn't really lend itself to one. So, I quickly abandoned the thought.

ocalicreek Wrote:You keep right on disproving conventional wisdom. It's working!

Thanks for the support, Galen.

Reinhard, Koos, you're welcome, and thank you. As for brown paint on the ballast, haven't really had that problem. Oh, every now and then, a bit of brown paint might get on the ballast when I am not paying attention to the brush, but a clean brush dipped in water and run over the spot dilutes the paint and makes it dissappear.

Something else I am thinking... when ballasting, I use a foam brush to spread the ballast around, and it leaves the ballast slightly below the ties and rails. Perhaps that tiny bit of gap makes the painting process work for me.

Kevin, you make some good points. What we can all take from this is that the "conventional wisdom" as applies to model railroads shouldn't be taken as gospel. It never hurts to push against the "imposed" limits set by those who have prominence in the hobby. Try different things, if they don't work, you can always start over. Doing this on the backdrop is quite easy... doesn't look right, paint over it! So no harm in trying!

Here's what I am working on this morning.... still alot to do on it, all the little stuff that will tie it together with the layout, both with paint and 3D scenery.

[attachment=20021]

I think biL would be proud of your accomplishments, Gary.

I'm more than impressed, too, but that glimpse of your palette in that last photograph has me wondering if you've traded your Stetson for a beret.

Wayne

Gary those trees look amazing! I'd like a tutorial on those please :-)

I am modeling California, particularly Northern California, Davis to Corning etc, loads of deciduous trees there, and I need a few painted on the backdrop in due course :-)

Koos

Gary S Wrote:Reinhard, Koos, you're welcome, and thank you. As for brown paint on the ballast, haven't really had that problem. Oh, every now and then, a bit of brown paint might get on the ballast when I am not paying attention to the brush, but a clean brush dipped in water and run over the spot dilutes the paint and makes it dissappear.

Take it from a guy that walked track for 14 years. The rust runs on to the ballast too. [attachment=7830]Only where the ballast is new is there no sign of rust. Mainlines get re-ballasted and have the ballast cleaned more often so you won't see as much, but lightly used lines with low maintenance generally shows lots of transparent rust on the ballast right where the water would drip, and if there is any type of speed on the trains, the metal removed from the rail during a train passing will also rust, leaving a rusty cast to the ballast. This is exaggerated on the high side of curves where the rails wear more, the sharper the curve, the more wear, and the more rust. If there hasn't been rain or high humidity for a while you will even see flakes of metal inside the gauge on the high side of the curve.
You don't want to over-empathise this if you try to model it.
If you look at the track under the cart you can see the rust on the ballast[attachment=7829]
Charlie
Edit 13:09 add pictures

Oh man...You're killing me...Just plain killin' me....

Seems like every scene just gets better n' better....

doctorwayne Wrote:I think biL would be proud of your accomplishments, Gary.

I think about biL quite often as I work on the backdrop. HIs tips and suggestions often come to mind, and makes the painting easier. And, the fact that he had the utmost confidence in me gives me the confidence to do this stuff. He was a great coach. I miss him.

doctorwayne Wrote:that glimpse of your palette in that last photograph has me wondering if you've traded your Stetson for a beret.

I must admit that I am rather liking this backdrop painting stuff. Now that all the fear is gone, and I realize that if a mistake is made, you just paint over it and start again, I'm enjoying it alot.

torikoos Wrote:Gary those trees look amazing! I'd like a tutorial on those please

On the section of backdrop I am working on now, I've got a bunch of close-up trees to paint. I may get to it tomorrow afternoon. If so, I'll take photos as I go. On that note, I am hoping to entice my wife to come out and learn the technique too. If she gets the hang of it, perhaps I can put her to work on some of the forest areas!

Gary,

Looks like you are having a great time with the painting, I am always amazed at how easy it really is and how much it adds to the overall effect of the layout . Ithink you have really developed a great appraoch that is consistant, easy to folllow, and the results are great. Keep up the great work and as always keep us posted on your progress!!

Charlie, the few times I get paint on the ballast, it is way to "strong" of a color. So, something has to be done about it, like I mentioned earlier, take a clean brush and water and wash the paint away. It just dissappears in the ballast. Now, I suppose less washing and it may leave just a faded rusty spot, which might be just what the doctor ordered.

Gus, thanks for the compliments. The scene still has a long way to go. For one thing, the colors are way too saturated, but the final blue washes should take care of that, and serve to blend everything into a cohesive whole.

Greg, thank you. I really am enjoying the painting. I made up my mind tonight to keep working on this section of the layout (the interchange with the SP)... finish the backdrop, then start on some actual 3D scenery, and get it looking respectable. Then we can really get an idea of whether the backdrop is going to work or not. For some reason, I'm not worried about it, I am confident that it will come out looking pretty good.

Here's where I am at the moment. Accomplished quite a bit today. This section is about 6 feet long, so each photo is around 2 feet. To me, it looks better in person than in the photos.

[attachment=20024]

[attachment=20023]

[attachment=20022]

Note: The guide photos on the left of the backdrop where taken by me, on location. The photos of the multi-peaked building were taken off of Google-Earth street view.

Gary, you got the trees very good. While the buildings might be called some kind of technical drawing are the trees the art of painting. It is very rare to see a backdrop with detailed painting. It is amazing

Gary S Wrote:On the section of backdrop I am working on now, I've got a bunch of close-up trees to paint. I may get to it tomorrow afternoon. If so, I'll take photos as I go. On that note, I am hoping to entice my wife to come out and learn the technique too. If she gets the hang of it, perhaps I can put her to work on some of the forest areas!

Ha ha that sound like a great plan, I'd like my wife to help me, but she isn't interested. Perhaps I need to drag her up there one day and show her what I've accomplished, but at the moment that's not a lot. :-)

Koos

Reinhard, the trees are impossible to "duplicate", so that is where the "art" comes into play... just trying to make a reasonable representation.

Koos, here is a tutorial...

First, it helps to have photos of real trees handy. If you can photoshop them to the actual size neededfor the backdrop, so much the better. As you have seen in previous posts and threads, I like having a long string of actual size photos taped together, so basically the painting is just following along from the photos.

[attachment=20032]

I lightly penciled in the upper treeline (tree - sky junction). I did end up making the treeline lower behind the existing painting building and all the way down the line just because it felt better than my photoshop trees.

[attachment=20031]

Here are the brushes I use. They are round brushes with flat tips made for stippling. These are from Hobby Lobby. The smallest is about 1/4" around. There is also a "fan" brush that I cut the sides off of, for a different texture of stippling.

[attachment=20030]

Paints - Awhile back after having decided to paint the backdrops, I mixed up a whole bunch of paint of various shades of green. These are from the big bottles of acrylic craft paint from Hobby Lobby. The colors are limited, so buy green, black, white, tan, antique white, brown, and gray. Buy a bunch of the green. Then mix various shades of green.

Olive greens... very dark to very light... these are what I use the most.

[attachment=20029]

Greens.... very gray to a yellow green

[attachment=20028]

For the trees, it is mostly a stippling technique. First, load the brush by dipping straight down into some paint

[attachment=20027]

Then dab the brush straight down onto a flat surface, to remove excess paint. This can also serve as stippling practice. Don't take off too much paint. You want a very light dab to leave the "leaf-like" texture. If you press too hard, it makes a big glob, if you take off too much paint, you have to mash the brush down too hard, and that leaves a spot rather than leaf texture. This does take some practice to get a feel for it. Once you get the hang, it goes pretty fast. Intuition will have you blotting too hard and too fast and too much before loading the brush again. Really, it should be: load, dab twice on a flat surface, then go to the backdrop, dab 4 to 6 times very lightly, then repeat. If you find yourself dabbing dozens of times without reloading, you will be making a solid color instead of the leaves. Practice practice practice and think about what you are doing.

[attachment=20026]

Also doesn't hurt to practice on some masonite boards painted blue. Makes it easy to sit at the workbench and practice in comfort, before trying the techniques on the backdrop. I know that practice seems like wasted effort, especially when you make some respectable trees that will just be thrown away, but it is really necessary. Here are some of my practice boards:

[attachment=20025]

continued....