Gary I think it looks great, as for the truck, why not paint it out, find a magazine picture of one or print one the right size, cut it out, and stick it to the painting with something that is removable. That way you can "get a new truck" every now and again.
Charlie

First, appreciate everyone's quick responses. - Plenty of food for thought!

Russ, SP1, thanks for the comments. I could put a couple of model cars coming into the driveway right in front of the backdrop, and some parked like the model van is. I agree that anything that will block the backdrop/layout junction will help. The white truck is also parked across the street. I'll ponder the idea od leaving it out. For the dumpsters, those are across the street at the other building... and couldn't put model ones in right there because the model parking lot is the driveway coming into the bank. If I paint them on the actual backdrop, I need to make them smaller too. I can see now that I sized the photo too large, so everythng came out to big. That's a good thing learned though. If there are items near the front of the photo that the size is known, then size the photo so that those items are slightly smaller than HO scale.

Ralph, thanks for the compliments. I need to put some clouds in, but so far I have been afraid to try. Another one of those things where it is best to practice on a mock-up to get the technique down, then do it to the layout.

docWayne, thank you. I am using craft paints, HobbyLobby had them on sale for 59 cents the other day. I thinned them down a bit, and used two or three applications to get the more solid colors. A technique I read about in a MRC back issue was to use washes over the backdrop color, that way they come out a bit muted with the sky color showing through, giving the illusion of distance - lighter hazed out colors the further away they are. I also tried to mute the colors a bit by mixing with very light gray. And, putting a hazy wash over the painting after it has dried helps tie all the colors together and mesh them with the sky color.

MasonJar Wrote:Have you considered using photos for the backdrop? Perhaps not as is, but with a bit of post-processing to blur them or otherwise make detail a bit more indistinct? I have also seen a technique in MR where the author painted on top of photos, matching colours and so on, but that gave him the freedom to change details as needed.

I've thought alot about how to do the backdrop, including photos. For some reason, I have an adversion to using them for the backdrop, possibly because I am assuming it would be expensive. Also, I fear there would be places where I would have to slice the photos, leaving a noticable joint.

MJ Wrote:My only criticism is not with your skill, but with the layout of the scene. It appears as if the building behind the truck should extend out over the roadway. I am assuming that is not the case...

Andrew, could you elaborate on that a little bit? I'm not sure what you mean. Here is a bing view of the area, showing the street and the building which is painted on the backdrop. This is more or less a rear view.

[attachment=19978]

Hey Charlie,

Not a bad idea on the truck. I was fortunate to be invited to an ops session last night - the backdrop was painted and was very nice. It did follow docWayne's advice of minimizing details, the farms and silos and such where basically shaded geometric shapes, and it was effective. Afterwards, I visited another gentleman's layout and he had had an artist paint the Houston downtown skyline... talk about fantastic, it was "oh my God" fantastic. I didn't take any photos because I left the camera at home.

But, next time I am over there, I'll get photos of both layouts.

Can you just take photos, stitch them together as a big panorama in photoshop, then take to kinkos to print on their big printer?

Gary S Wrote:Andrew, could you elaborate on that a little bit? I'm not sure what you mean. Here is a bing view of the area, showing the street and the building which is painted on the backdrop. This is more or less a rear view.

He thinks that the Chase building is losing his Big-Bank-Structure-in-Middle-of-Parking-Lot appearance.

SP1 Wrote:

Gary S Wrote:Andrew, could you elaborate on that a little bit? I'm not sure what you mean. Here is a bing view of the area, showing the street and the building which is painted on the backdrop. This is more or less a rear view.

He thinks that the Chase building is losing his Big-Bank-Structure-in-Middle-of-Parking-Lot appearance.

Nope, that's not what I meant. What I do mean is that it looks like the building painted on the scrap has been cut off. It needs to be finished so it looks like the end of the building.

[attachment=19979]

The other problem is the changing point of view possible. See the different angles in your photos. It might work to improve the illusion by moving the free-standing CHASE sign closer to the backdrop to 1) disguise the end of the backdrop building, and 2) prevent a change in viewpoint that would make the painted backdrop seem odd from certain angles.

Similarly, you might want to not paint the tree on the backdrop, but rather use a "half-depth" tree (all branches on one side so it can be planted against the backdrop) to further the illusion.

Andrew

Andrew, that edge of the painted building is just where I arbitrarily cut off the hardboard that the experimental painting was done on. I will need to do something with that, like stopping it behind the sign. Then I could make the painted tree a bit broader, hanging out over the roadway just a little. also like your suggestion of moving the sign back - would take just a bit of reworking of the curb I put there. I could also move the sign just a bit to the left.

On the subject of tree, there is actually a small model tree planted within the yellow curb right beside the sign. It blended into the background on the other photos. Another thought I just had would be to move the sign closer to the front of the layout and put a "half-tree" behind it, right against the backdrop. From a technical standpoint, that would block the sign from any LBPs that were viewing from the backdrop side, so the bank folks probably would lose the advertisement value of the sign.

Here's a view from above.

[attachment=6935]

Gary,

I should have figured it was an arbitrary cut-off. That's the danger of making mock-ups look so good...!

And your model tree blended so well with the painted that I did not realize it was there.

So nevermind my $0.02, just carry on...!

Andrew

nachoman Wrote:Can you just take photos, stitch them together as a big panorama in photoshop, then take to kinkos to print on their big printer?

Kevin, with 170 feet of backdrop, that's alot of printing... would have to splice in many places. Of course, would try to put the splices behind buildings and trees. Also, what about the tops of the prints? Cut out around the trees and buildings and use the painted blue of the walls as the sky? There's 36 inches of vertical wall above the layout. I haven't been a fan of photo backdrops, although I have never tried to use them.

SP1 Wrote:He thinks that the Chase building is loosing his Big-Bank-Structure-in-Middle-of-Parking-Lot appearance.

That did happen to a certain extent, but I don't know how to battle that. Make the painted building a bit shorter so it appears further back?

I did notice from my last photo that the red needs to be toned down. I have to say, viewing it in person, the red just doesn't seem that bright. Maybe some gray powder brushed over it will help.

I am wondering if I should put a bit of the dark gray/black bank parking lot on the backdrop, along with a bit of curb and sidewalk.

MasonJar Wrote:I should have figured it was an arbitrary cut-off. That's the danger of making mock-ups look so good...!

Not to worry Andrew! I definitely appreciate your insight and opinions. One of the great things about Big Blue is all the "extra eyes" that it gives - instead of just me looking at the layout, I have all of you to make suggestions too. The more thoughts and opinions I hear, the easier it is to make informed choices. Like I said before, I won't always use all of the suggestions, but we can rest assured that I pondered the issues before making a final decision.

The one thing I dislike is doing something, and then a few days later coming up with a better idea, "why didn't I think of that?" and then wanting to redo it. The many sets of eyes at Big Blue help me avoid that!

So "Thank you to everyone!"

Gary S Wrote:Kevin, with 170 feet of backdrop, that's alot of printing... would have to splice in many places. Of course, would try to put the splices behind buildings and trees. Also, what about the tops of the prints? Cut out around the trees and buildings and use the painted blue of the walls as the sky? There's 36 inches of vertical wall above the layout. I haven't been a fan of photo backdrops, although I have never tried to use them.

They have printers that print on 48" wide rolls of paper up to 96 inches long. I use one at work for printing maps and such, but I've also had to have some stuff printed at Kinkos. My thoughts were to use photos where you need details, and then just a tree/sky backdrop for the rural areas. The reason I say this, is that distant hills, trees, and sky can be relatively easily painted, but more detailed things like trucks and dumpsters could be quite tedious.

A couple tangent thoughts.

I know you're going for more realistic than representational, but consider using a layered idea. That is, a hardboard layer (flat) between the backdrop and foreground. On the hardboard would be intermediate objects in 2-d. For example, the scene you've just painted, but cut out along major edges like the roofline. Then any additional structures or scenic features further back in distance would be painted on the actual backdrop. Using 1/8" hardboard, you'd want to space it 1/8" to 1/4" from the backdrop to provide some relief but not much.

I'm thinking along these lines by wondering-ahead as to what you'll do at the street. Extending that street is a job for the backdrop, but carefully positioned flats on either side of the street could help pull off the illusion more convincingly. The backdrop scenery could be grayed and muted 20% and the flats only 10%.

Your painting skill looks pretty good, but I'd lean towards using photos just because of the level of detail you bring to the foreground structures.

Finally, I was a little confused about the tree. The added 3-d tree really blended well with the 2-d backdrop tree, but when I looked at the overhead view I noticed the tree was actually across the street. Huh?

Galen

ocalicreek Wrote:I know you're going for more realistic than representational, but consider using a layered idea. Extending that street is a job for the backdrop, but carefully positioned flats on either side of the street could help pull off the illusion more convincingly.

I see what you mean. The street is going to be tough to pull off. You guys aregiving me alot to think about. I have only seen one layout in person that had layered building flats... to me, it wasn't that good, but it may have been a function of using those commercial paper buildings cut out. The colors and buildings seemed "off". Wrong era or locality, perhaps that is why I didn't like the way it turned out, not necessarily the layered look.

Your painting skill looks pretty good, but I'd lean towards using photos just because of the level of detail you bring to the foreground structures.

ocalicreek Wrote:Finally, I was a little confused about the tree. The added 3-d tree really blended well with the 2-d backdrop tree, but when I looked at the overhead view I noticed the tree was actually across the street. Huh?

Yikes, my use of trees is scaring me. If it is causing confusion, maybe I need to do something different. There are two trees there, one across the street which is painted on the backdrop. The other is on this side of the street, in the bank parking lot, right next to the bank sign. I'll have to look at that again in person to see if it looks right. Perhaps I need to cut the trunk shorter, lowering the tree. Also, I need to add some light gray o the trunk to make it stand out better.

[attachment=19980]