Gary S Wrote:I'm trying to remember how DocWayne did his water.... I think he painted the bottom and then used gloss medium brushed on top? DocWayne?
My "water" was made using Durabond patching plaster: mix and install, using drywall knives to level and to create "waterish" effects before it sets. Once hardened (and it
does get hard), paint with latex house paint. Once dry, add "whitewater" effects if desired, then apply three coats of high gloss water-based clear urethane. No stink, no "creep" up the shore line, and no maintenance except the occasional dusting. It's also very durable - the camera is often sitting either directly on the "water" or on blocks of wood on the "water" when taking photos. For smooth and still water, one of the products intended for such may be preferrable, as it would be difficult to apply the plaster smoothly enough.
Wayne
Gary S Wrote:Tom, if all my bridge supports are from styrene, and I use a heat gun to melt the water pellets, won't I also melt the supports?
Also, the water in the bayou is a murky greenish brown. So paint the color onto the bottom of the bayou and then put a thin layer of the EZ water on top? I'm trying to remember how DocWayne did his water.... I think he painted the bottom and then used gloss medium brushed on top? DocWayne?
Well, I am off to the layout room to start the initial terrain building at the bridge location... knife, faom glue, wire brush, and a shop vac.
Oh, I'm sorry. I ASSumed you were doing it the way I did mine, with plaster bridge abutments, I forgot ("Like an idiot Buckman!!") that you were scratch building the bents out of styrene. My bad...
Tom, I haven't completely decided to use styrene. I am still considering wooden dowels for the pipe, and plaster for the abutements - maybe even wood abutements? Using wooden dowels sounds attractive because they are relatively cheap at the big box hobby stores. Of course, styrene tube is easy to work with. So, everything is still up in the air as far as materials and methods for the bridge.
I'm all ears on any discussion of the merits of various methods. Right now, I am cutting and shaping the foam for the basic terrain, so the bridge construction won't be started for awhile. Unless I make rapid progress...
DocWayne, your water method sounds easy and straightforward.
Looking at the bridge pics I posted (the first set of pics on the previous page of this thread), the water doesn't even have a trace of clear to it. Just murky olive drab green. You mention the difficulty of making it perfectly flat, that may be an issue because the bayou water in the photo isn't really flowing much. Still, wind action would cause some ripples. I'll go back and look at your photos... unless you find one and post it here!
Thanks DocWayne!
Your second photo is a good match on color, I need just a tad more green in mine.
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Tom and DocWayne, the water looks pretty flat, no ripples. To obtain that look, do I need to use a "self-leveling" method like the EZ water? That would mean plaster abutements. DocWayne, could I get the flatness by your method?
Now, on the plaster, it would be pretty cool to form the abutements with styrene, insert the pipes, and then pour the plaster in.
Here is a photo showing the slope profile down to the bayou:
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I did some measuring and angle finding from my photos. The bridge is almost 300 feet long. Starting at the end, there are three 25 foot sections, then four 37 foot sections, and then three more 25 foot sections. It's about 40 feet from the bottom of the bridge down to the water. The bayou isn't centered under the bridge, the centerline is actually 140 feet from one end of the bridge and 160 feet from the other. The slope on one side is a bit steeper than on the other side. Here is what I have so far:
Carving the bayou channel. I used various kitchen knives and a wire brush to clean things up a bit. (Still have much more to do with the wire brush. Once all the basic terrain is done, I'll use sculptamold (or whatever you guys may suggest) to fill in depressions and smooth things out. I am planning on using roughed up sheet styrene for the concrete on the slopes.
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Carved upper slopes:
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Using foam triangles to fill in:
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Finished one side and working on the other:
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And everything in place, will have to let the glue dry before I continue on.
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I like the idea of using styrene (or I suppose you could use wood, but I'd use styrene) to form them out then pour in plaster. It'd be just like the real thing really. I don't know why, but I just prefer plaster for bridge abutments and piers. I don't see why you couldn't get a flat area using Doc's method, maybe use a palm sander to get it relatively flat and smooth? Doc?
Tom, I agree that the plaster method would be really cool. Back when I was a kid, as I looked through the model railroad magazines, I was always fascinated by plaster work. Then I was out of the hobby for 30 years, now that I am back, I still hold the same fascination. Plaster just seems like the epitome of model railroading in my mind. It's how the old timers did it!
I mentioned this before, but I have actually never completed any model railroad scenery. Closest I have come is ballasted track! So, this project should be interesting!
I'd say you are doing just fine so far. A BIG part of the fun for me though is learning new tricks and applying them.
Holy crap.... I just spent the better part of my afternoon reading this very interesting thread and evolution.
I'm very impressed and excited to follow along. You have one some tremendous work in just under a year. I'm excited this layout complete and run its course.
Very good work you and your family have done here. very comendable.
The wife even likes the idea of putting me out in my own train hut, but we live in a condo, and I doubt the condo board would allow us to build a shack in the parking lot for my trains.... plus in Edmonton the weather changes are lil too extreme for that.
Congrats on a fantastic looking building, and a great layout!
That is really starting to look good!! I am impressed!!
Not sure if you have seen these bridges but they might come in handy...
http://www.scalebridge.com/index.shtml
Might make things a little easier too
Gary S Wrote:Tom and DocWayne, the water looks pretty flat, no ripples. To obtain that look, do I need to use a "self-leveling" method like the EZ water? That would mean plaster abutements. DocWayne, could I get the flatness by your method?
Now, on the plaster, it would be pretty cool to form the abutements with styrene, insert the pipes, and then pour the plaster in.
You could probably get the water flat enough using Durabond, as the channel is fairly narrow, allowing you to rest the edges of the finishing knife on the banks. It's unlikely you'll be placing your camera on the "water", so any irregularities could be smoothed with drywall mud. Durabond cures rock-hard and is difficult to sand, although when first set, it can be scraped flat fairly easily, especially on a narrow area. Another option would be to mix the Durabond very thin (lots of water). It would then be self-levelling, although would take perhaps longer than usual to fully cure. It seems to set in the time stated on the packaging, regardless of how much water is used, though.
For forming the abutments and pier footings, a styrene mould is a good choice if you want to pour them in plaster. There's some more info
HERE and even though it shows free-standing moulds, the techniques for ones in-place on the layout should be similar. If you pour around pipes, you may find that the plaster will form a meniscus around each pipe: as soon as the plaster sets firm, strip off the mould and use a knife or other suitable tool to dress the top surface of the plaster and remove any unwanted "creep". The Durabond is quite carveable at this stage. If you get air bubbles in the moulded surfaces, simply mix a small amount of material and patch as required.
Wayne
Wiredup Wrote:Holy crap.... I just spent the better part of my afternoon reading this very interesting thread and evolution
Congrats on a fantastic looking building, and a great layout!
Thank you kindly for sharing your afternoon with me! I appreciate your comments. I will admit that it is nice to have my own seperate "man cave" out in the back where I can just be myself and concentrate on just the things I am working on. Hope you stick around and watch the further evolution of the layout building!
mountaingoatgreg Wrote:That is really starting to look good!! I am impressed!!
Not sure if you have seen these bridges but they might come in handy...
http://www.scalebridge.com/index.shtml
Thank you for the nice comments Greg. And thanks for that website. Great looking bridges there, and not that expensive either. Although the area I am working on now will probably get a scratchbuilt bridge, I believe I'll use some of the stuff on that website in some other locations. That site makes me want to do MORE bridges!
DocWayne - Can durabond be found at the big box hardware stores? Need to find some and run some experiments.
Tom - Thanks for all the thoughts - keep 'em coming!
