Charlie B Wrote:Gary, under your layout is so neat. Mine will be a carbon copy (not). Don't ever expect to see pictures of it.
Charlie

Man, no kidding! That's great work!
Ralph

Gary, you have done such a neat and organized job of wiring that layout, that you will probably never have a problem. I would bet that if you had just thrown together a "bird's nest" you would have needed to chase down shorts or opens and wished that you had done a neat, organized wiring job on it.

Russ, I was thinking the same thing! Catch 22... do it with the forethought and extra effort needed for easy troubleshooting, and then I'll never need to troubleshoot.

Reckon in the years to come, I'll be wishing for something to go wrong with the wiring just so I can make use of my original efforts?

I'll bet a Chunky Bar that the reason Gary won't ever have any troubleshooting to do is not the neatness of the pipes and boxes ... that would be the secondary result of the primary reason; the forethought and planning it took beforehand to do the wiring inside the pipes and boxes.

Thorough planning and calm, neat and thoughtful execution of the plan ... that will be the ultimate key to what shall be henceforth known as Gary's "bullet-proof" wiring!

My experience with electrical is that nothing is ever completely "bullet proof." Corrosion will sneak in at a connection somewhere, or a wire will break, or a switch will fail. It would be nice to build a layout that is totally maintenance free, but it probably won't happen. The way Gary has run his wiring, when there is a problem, it should be easy to isolate and repair.

Thoughtful planning and careful execution ... think about it ... Gary did! He laid it all out and drew it all up before he started. He took his time and did his homework first rather that hurriedly stringing wire to quickly see a train run.

Sure, corrosion could potentially be a problem, but if you've considered the possibility and taken steps to defend against it, its probability would be very surprizing indeed ... I can't for the life of me conceive of a scenario where a wire inside a piece of steel conduit would break ... and it doesn't appear that cheap plugs and switches from the Used Electrical Equipment Surplus Store were used anywhere in this build ... no ... it was all pretty much just thoughtful planning and careful execution ... and the use of quality components with a high MTBF rate.

I'm not trying to be a contrarian, Russ, but I'll bet that same Chunky Chocolate Bar with the raisins and the nuts in it in the silver foil wrapper that as a result of Gary's thoughtful planning and careful execution, maintenance will be minimal and failures will be the next thing to non-existant.

It's not necessarily how pretty it is that will make it bulletproof....Bottom line is.....Gary knows what he's doing

Man, you guys are making me blush! :oops:

Thanks for the great compliments! I did a bit more wiring tonight. Still have a long ways to go though. I may take off Friday and spend a three-day weekend getting the wiring completed.

All of you make good points. Nothing is bulletproof as Russ says, but as biL says, a bit of foresight and planning goes a long ways. And when something does go wrong, it should be a simple matter to isolate it and correct it. And Richard, I better know what I am doing, having been an electrician since 1980! But as I have said before, it isn't the wiring and technical issues that scare me, it is the scenery and details on top of the layout that send shvers down my spine!

Oh... those Chunkies with the raisins and nuts... I loved those when I was a kid! Deeeee-lish-usssssss!

Gary,

I just recently have begun observing your progress on your layout. Very nice professional construction job on the layout building and all the internals. Can you please comment on your scenery lay up and colors on your foamboard?

Thanks,

Larry

Gary, I've just now thought of another question about the wiring. How do you do your drops from your rails to your main buss wires? At the modular club we have found that every single piece of rail needs it's own drop wire for reliable operation. Rail joiners, even if soldered, don't provide reliable electrical connections. Our biggest single problem with the electrical at any set up are the joiner tracks between modules that require the electrical connection to go through rail joiners on either end of the joiner track.

Your drops need to be small in order to hide them from view, but the small wires will result in a voltage drop if they are more than 6 inches long or so. I'm presuming that your drops are soldered to your buss wires in the junction boxes. How long are the longest drops?

Right after I posted this, I received an email on the Santa Fe Yahoo Group that I thought I'd pass on to you. The web site is
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.santafeprototypes.com">http://www.santafeprototypes.com</a><!-- m -->

They are coming out with a kit to convert the Bachmann high nose Gp7 & 9 to a chop nose version with a Topeka Cab. It will be limited run with kits made only for those who preorder by August 15 for delivery in the fall/winter of 2010. As a limited run it will be expensive, but I thought you might be interested.

Russ, I typically put a drop to every piece of track. I also skip soldering the joiners on about every other piece of track, just to allow room for some expansion. Now, on the old shelves, the drops are #22 solid for about 4 to 6 inches, then are soldered to #18 which runs over to the #8 bus in the junction boxes. The maximum length on the #18 is around 24 inches, but most are shorter than that. All the mentioned connections are soldered.

On the new shelves, the drops are all #18 solid going to the #8 bus. I cut out a tie or two from the flex track, then solder the #18 to the bottom of the rail. Then I lay the track upside down where it will go, mark and drill the hole for the wire, feed the wire through, then glue the track into place. Doing it this way makes it very easy to hide the wiring under the ballast.

Now, there have been a few spots where I had to add feeders to glued down track on both the old and new sections. I did use #18 for these, and will hide the solder connections with paint and ballast. It isn't a perfect job, and even with the paint/ballast, the discerning eye will find them, but it is only in a couple of places. I can live with it.

Also, in some places where parallel tracks are close together as in a yard, I sometimes run the wires between the tracks instead of doing drops from each one. One track will have a drop, but then I run the wires between the ties over to the other track. all this gets covered with ballast.

Back to the 6 inch limit for the small gauge wires. It is my opinion that a person can get by with a couple of feet of #22 wire at the drops. At 1 amp with #22 wire and 4 total feet (2 + 2), the voltage drop is around 1/10th of a volt - not enough to matter in my estimation. Also, this is neglecting any parallel paths such as through the rail joiners of the track on either end. Even if these rail joiners are not perfect, they are still a part of the parallel path and as such, will lessen the overall resistance to the current going to the rail in question.

Still, I am erring on the big side on all the wiring. I did do the "quarter test" at the extreme end of the bus where the wiring is complete and the booster shut down as it should. So, everything looks good.

Thanks for the link and the info on the Topeka cab. Just may be interested in that.

fast car Wrote:I just recently have begun observing your progress on your layout. Very nice professional construction job on the layout building and all the internals. Can you please comment on your scenery lay up and colors on your foamboard?

I'm not sure exactly what you are asking about when you say "scenery lay up" but I am assuming you mean how I did the ditches and terrain on the old shelves as in the photo:

[attachment=19763]

I carved the terrain into the 2" thick foam using a knife to rough it in, then used a wire brush to get the contours to what I desired. On shallower ditches, I just went at it with the wire brush. Once the wire brush has done its job, some rough sandpaper or a even a dish towel and some elbow grease can be used to smooth out some of the scraping marks caused by the wire brush. I highly recommend a shop vac to be used during the process.

Then I threw some brown water-based paint on the foam. Couldn't tell you the exact color... I had some tan and some dark brown, then I mixed the two together to achieve a color that was acceptable to me.

If the "carving" gets away from you and you end up with something too deep, it can be filled in and contoured with sculptamold.

Hope that answers your question. If not, please ask!

Bad night in the train room tonight.

Generally as I do the wiring, I use the ohm-meter to check for shorts as I am wiring each j-box section. But for whatever reason, I didn't think about it tonight (maybe because everything has been going perfectly so far). So after I get three j-box sections completed and covers on the boxes, I thought "better check for shorts". Took the ohm-meter and checked from green to white....

Crap! Short circuit.

I checked all the easy stuff first... anything laying on the rails? No. Visually check all the wire color connections in the j-boxes - everything in order. So nothing left to do but start isolating the feeders - which means cutting them loose from the solder joints. I find one of the drops where I somehow swapped the green and white to the track.

Fixed that, tied it back to the bus, then checked the track again.... still shorted!!! You have got to be kidding me.

So I start isolating feeders again, and find another green/white reversal at the track. Fix that one, now everything is clear. I got everything soldered back together, closed up the boxes, did another ohm check, everything fine, so I turned off the lights and called it quits for the night! Very frustrating to have to undo all the completed work. I won't make that mistake again! Double check everything as you are doing it!!!

Gary S Wrote:... I find one of the drops where I somehow swapped the green and white to the track. ...!

Gary, I suggest you take that guy out for a beer. The online community of this forums supports and likes that guy very much. So don't be to harsh with him. He is a real nice guy

News Flash!

Tonight, Gary S. lost his concentration and let his mind wander while working to complete the "as-close-to-Bullet-Proof-as-you-can-get-it" wiring that biL was trying to convince Russ was going to make problems virtually non-existant by repeating the mantra ... " ... result of Gary's thoughtful planning and careful execution."

C'mon, Gary! hock: 8-) :oops:

You're gonna cost me one of my coveted Chunky Chocolate Bars with the raisins and the nuts in it in the silver foil wrapper! :!: :arrow: